While We Wait: Part 2

[Kozmos]

Innernet. Serious business.

 

[Symphony D.]

Innernet. Serious business.

Oh, look, look, our first winner! Isn't it amazing folks? Do any of you want your fortunes told? I seem to be on a roll here! Next I'll be sparring Carnac the Magnificent in the multiverse!

 

[Kozmos]

Oh, look, look, our first winner! Isn't it amazing folks? Do any of you want your fortunes told? I seem to be on a roll here! Next I'll be sparring Carnac the Magnificent in the multiverse!

Ah Symph your too high strung. Slow down your wheels, take it easy. Play a relaxing game of DEFCON, eat a toast with ham and melted cheese and drink a beverage of your choice.

 

[Kal'thzar]

What you think you know Sympth is that two methodologies do not work.

The latter methodology certainly does not work, or at least where it has worked in creating confrontation previously it has not produced anything usable, other than a dicussion of some egos (which is really intresting to be honest, and I do appreciate it).

The former methodology has produced some dicussion but as you suggest only went to a certain stage, personally I think it could be explored further if thats what you want to do, but generally what we see is people trying to innovate and starting a NES with said innovations.

Lastly I'm sure that there are other methodologies that you havn't thought of yet.

Although from what I read I think your aware that you are in a sense being used, and apart from ranting about it don't really care too much.

 

[North King]

I don't think they can have them. Reality ultimately needs to be imposed by logic and knowledge on the part of the Moderator laying down the law and saying "No;" no rule set will ever do that satisfactorily on its own. The rule sets are basic and could use improvement for sure. However what's genuinely needed are educated, intelligent moderators to use them.

The number one problem with the game is moderators letting players do whatever the hell they want with few or no consequences.

I agree with you, actually. Moderators are too kind, me included.

Anyone around plays Supreme Commander?

Yes, at friends' houses. My own computer cannot run it, and I've kind of drifted away from all video games recently, so there's no point in buying a "better" one.

 

[Kozmos]

About SC, it is currently shelved for me because my CPU is crap and has a hard time calculating all the physics for the thousands of fired projectiles at any time. Otherwise it's the best RTS I've played with World in Conflict being the best RTT.

 

[Cannae]

Ah Symph your too high strung. Slow down your wheels, take it easy. Play a relaxing game of DEFCON, eat a toast with ham and melted cheese and drink a beverage of your choice.

I would have to agree with this statment. Is it worth throwing such a hissy fit over this matter?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Here is the map to go with my response:



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[Birdjaguar]

So if yelling, kicking, and screaming at you doesn't work, and coddling, prodding, and encouraging you doesn't work, what does? Interesting question, isn't it? I already know the answer(s) empirically. I have for awhile now. There are two possible solutions to this.

The first answer, the trivial solution of A=0, is that nothing works at all and that you'll ignore me regardless, ostensibly because I am me (this we can deduce by the fact some of you sometimes listen to other people).

The second, nontrivial solution is the one that has definite evidence empirically. The last time I tried soliciting advice on rules I got about 6 pages of half-hearted comments (subtracting out my own remarks) and a whole lot of bellyaching that too much thinking was involved. I've only modded a single real game for one turn. The last time Birdjaguar asked he got 14 pages and the last time das tried it was 9 pages of more than just half-assery.

Isn't that interesting? You should be fascinated. There seems to be a clear correlation between interest and knowledge of past results.

No, I'm rather aware yelling at you doesn't work. You don't want to be given an idea and encouraged to utilize it or demeaned if you don't. You don't want to think at all unless you know you'll get something proven out of it, and even then you're loathe to do it unless you really have to. You want something shiny persuaded into your possession--not thrust or gifted into it half-formed, where you can--should--put the rest of the pieces together yourself--no, no, persuaded. "Look what I've got, don't you want some of it?!" You want a nice big box where ugly sprawling things go in one side and nice pretty things come out the other, and you don't want to know how it works because then you whine that it's too complex. And you want to know that the person offering it to you can actually deliver it.

So, going back around to where we started, why am I bothering to continue to harass you people when all you want is to be left alone with your silliness instead of bothering to think about why things are as they are, and how they could possibly be made better? You want to remain blissfully ignorant and unaware of those possibilities and stick with the status quo. I get that.

Either way, it doesn't matter, because I'm working on more permanent solutions anyway. This is just a little sideshow. You don't like it? Tough. Either form a lynch mob and chase me off this forum or somehow convince Thunderfall to ban me or IP Nuke me or block me or whatever it is you want to do to get it to stop, or consider what I have to say and genuinely roll it around in your head for awhile.

All very interesting and insightful. I think that the 80/20 rule applies here: 20% of the people will work to create change and improvements and the rest will gratefully enjoy the benefits of those changes.

A third solution and probably the most effective is not to talk about and explain how you want to change things, but to just do it. Create the changes you think are needed and thrust them complete upon the world and see if they work. I have found out that is the best and least painful way to shift things around. That is what BirdNES and the upcoming Forge of Empires are all about. I'm just making the games as I think they should be played.

Pursuading people to change is too difficult. If you want the world to enjoy your recipe for chocolate cake, don't send out instructions, send out pieces of the cake for them to taste. If players find a game "interesting and fun" on their own terms, then they will play and those changes validated or rejected. So I would encourage you to create the rule set you long for and if you cannot mod it, see if someone else will. Be the change you want to see.

 

[Symphony D.]

Was that directed at me?

No.

Ah Symph your too high strung. Slow down your wheels, take it easy. Play a relaxing game of DEFCON, eat a toast with ham and melted cheese and drink a beverage of your choice.

I would have to agree with this statment. Is it worth throwing such a hissy fit over this matter?

I'd like to welcome you two to the Internet. You must be new here. I am not ranting. You have clearly never seen a rant or a hissy fit if that is what you classify that discourse as. Having thus proved yourselves naive, you may stow your commentary.

I am explaining for your benefit, because apparently interpreting the motives of others is too much for some people. Apparently so too is discerning the difference between an intellectual argument and an emotional response. I'm arguing dispassionately. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm simply telling you how things are. That is the difference between telling you exactly how Ebola liquifies your internal organs and giving you a testimonial of that liquification in action from the first person perspective.

So, until you learn to compute viewpoint, thanks. All I see in your responses is "Bar-bar-bar."

Lastly I'm sure that there are other methodologies that you havn't thought of yet.

I'd almost buy that confidence if you bothered to give any. As it is, you're just saying things. I gave my evidence. Where's yours? You have none? Where's your theory then? Cite your sources. Provide an explanation. I won't settle for "it must exist but I don't know why it is." How? Why? I was honest with you, so don't try bullshitting me in response.

A third solution and probably the most effective is not to talk about and explain how you want to change things, but to just do it. Create the changes you think are needed and thrust them complete upon the world and see if they work.

Oh, I agree completely.

It's just when I make pithy remarks people for some reason demand I explain myself despite never offering reasons for their own remarks. I have done that to my satisfaction. As I said, I'm just calling it like I see it, and I don't see any convincing viewpoints that I'm seeing it wrong. Whether you (all) agree or not is immaterial if you (all) can't justify your counterpoint.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Oh, I agree completely.

It's just when I make pithy remarks people for some reason demand I explain myself despite never offering reasons for their own remarks. I have done that to my satisfaction. As I said, I'm just calling it like I see it, and I don't see any convincing viewpoints that I'm seeing it wrong. Whether you (all) agree or not is immaterial if you (all) can't justify your counterpoint.

Sometimes replying to zealous posters on points that they are passionate about is just too demanding and difficult. OT has lots of that and I know it can be very tiring, especially when it is all about religion.

To argue against what you propose or for some other position requires a passion equally as strong as yours along with the argumentativeness and there are few in NESing that are as passionate or determined as you on such matters. The easier path is to provide simple three word answers.

 

[Symphony D.]

To argue against what you propose or for some other position requires a passion equally as strong as yours along with the argumentativeness and there are few in NESing that are as passionate or determined as you on such matters. The easier path is to provide simple three word answers.

As I said, this isn't passionate arguing. In my opinion, I'm stating facts. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. I say this is the world. If you don't like the world I have constructed or don't think you live in that world, you better tear it down. Otherwise I'm imposing it on you, because you can't challenge it. I wish somebody would, because then I could just make my arguments better. Maybe have some intelligent discussion on the matter.

And as the above shows, three-word-responses are pretty silly too, because then you look like an idiot, and I do here mean idiot in the classical sense of vacant. Put two different, stereotypical ways, "Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup," and "If you don't have anything intelligent to say, don't say anything at all."

If you don't like my points, refute them. If you're too lazy to do that, don't challenge them. Imagine doing that in some other field:

"I don't like Newton's Laws!"
"Why?"
"BECAUSE HE'S BITTER AND NEEDS A HUG! HE'S TOO HIGH STRUNG, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE UNIVERSE AND ALL!"

Yeah. That's how silly you people look. You're lazy enough not to try, so why are you bothering at all?

 

[Swissempire]

Would like all to know that I'm silently reading and absorbing. I can't contribute anything discursively constructive to the debate right now, but I can point out that what is seemingly futile is doing exactly what neither side expects it do do and exactly what it should do, that is, it is persuading the genuinely independent and undecided on the issue.

Also, the correct terminology would have been "our first winrar".

That is all.

 

[Kal'thzar]

I'd almost buy that confidence if you bothered to give any. As it is, you're just saying things. I gave my evidence. Where's yours? You have none? Where's your theory then? Cite your sources. Provide an explanation. I won't settle for "it must exist but I don't know why it is." How? Why? I was honest with you, so don't try bullshitting me in response.

Sweet, but get this. I am lazy, and no you can't rile me into assisting you. Do enjoy.

 

[andis-1]

Sweet, but get this. I am lazy, and no you can't rile me into assisting you. Do enjoy.

tenchar

 

[silver 2039]

This sounds like OT. If I wanted to see something like this I would go there....honestly....

 

[Luckymoose]

Why in the hell does Reno see it necessary to report posts? All it does is bring mod's here and then a good conversation turns out to be spam or something.

Spoiler :

 

[erez87]

because most of what you consider good conversation is most likely just spam...

 

[Reno]

Why in the hell does Reno see it necessary to report posts? All it does is bring mod's here and then a good conversation turns out to be spam or something.

Just trying to kick this thread back on track. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you bring it up to me in a pm instead of this thread.

 

[North King]

This sounds like OT. If I wanted to see something like this I would go there....honestly....

I have to agree, really. This is starting to rival OT in immaturity, and that is truly horrifying.