While We Wait: Part 5

[Dachs]

For those of you out there that know more than one language, how exactly do you go about it? Do you figure out what you want to say in your native tongue, then switch it over to the desired one? Do you simple understand the 'concept' you want to say in more than one tongue? For example: Do you translate the word 'homme' into English (or whatever you naturally speak) or do you recognize the concept that lies underneath the word?

It's kind of weird for me because I basically started out in a bilingual (or nearly so) household. Usually I don't 'translate' from English to German or vice versa, formulating what I want to say in one and then first the other; it kind of comes out automatically. (Sometimes, when I'm tired or annoyed, I'll start speaking in German, which confuses people a lot.) But with Arabic, it's entirely different. I'm having to try to formulate what I say in English and then go to the Arabic word, and then finally write it down in Arabic script, and it's slow going.

And despite all of your fawning over it, I hate German. Undeniably passionate hatred. And now I hate each one of you who ever talked about it favorably, along with the rest of you who fawned over it lovingly.

It's one of the easiest languages to learn for an English speaker, so I'm actually shocked that you don't like it that much. Grammar's basically the same, lots of cognates, and if you want to make a long word you just tack on prefixes...not all that difficult, IMHO. I'm biased, of course.

Du hasst mich.

Bad plays on Rammstein lyrics for the lose.

German is good if you want to yell, shout, give orders and generally be angry. I hate pretty much everything else about it. It's such a crude language, not very pleasant to listen to.

Oh, I don't know; I think German conveys some thoughts a little better. By far, Mann is superior in German...reading him in English is a bit of a letdown. Goethe works better in English if only because every teenager is Young Werther.

 

[Symphony D.]

Du hasst mich.

Also, on the chance of this being an oblique reference--the most thoroughly overrated and overplayed Rammstein song ever. I like most of their other stuff but that one song receives too much attention, and it's all The Matrix's fault.

 

[Dachs]

Also, on the chance of this being an oblique reference--the most thoroughly overrated and overplayed Rammstein song ever. I like most of their other stuff but that one song receives too much attention, and it's all The Matrix's fault.

Beat you to it. By far, their best song is Dalai Lama, although I don't know why. I also liked the Goethe poem it's based off of; that might have something to do with it.

 

[Symphony D.]

Beat you to it. By far, their best song is Dalai Lama, although I don't know why. I also liked the Goethe poem it's based off of; that might have something to do with it.

Der Meister. Post Live Aus Berlin (Mutter on) is generally more robust and listenable than the early stuff (I haven't heard Rosenrot) but there's a certain edge to the early songs. Dalai Lama is pretty good though, and I like most of Reise, Reise, so I won't strongly object...

 

[Dachs]

Der Meister. Post Live Aus Berlin (Mutter on) is generally more robust and listenable than the early stuff (I haven't heard Rosenrot) but there's a certain edge to the early songs. Dalai Lama is pretty good though, and I like most of Reise, Reise, so I won't strongly object...

Hurm. Der Meister is okay, but I'm not a fan of the guitarwork there. Lyrics aren't bad at all though.

 

[Symphony D.]

For the impatient, the best part of Twain's diatribe, if only because it runs precisely opposite to modern notions:

I think that a description of any loud, stirring, tumultuous episode must be tamer in German than in English. Our descriptive words of this character have such a deep, strong, resonant sound, while their German equivalents do seem so thin and mild and energyless. Boom, burst, crash, roar, storm, bellow, blow, thunder, explosion; howl, cry, shout, yell, groan; battle, hell. These are magnificent words; the have a force and magnitude of sound befitting the things which they describe. But their German equivalents would be ever so nice to sing the children to sleep with, or else my awe-inspiring ears were made for display and not for superior usefulness in analyzing sounds. Would any man want to die in a battle which was called by so tame a term as a Schlacht? Or would not a consumptive feel too much bundled up, who was about to go out, in a shirt-collar and a seal-ring, into a storm which the bird-song word Gewitter was employed to describe? And observe the strongest of the several German equivalents for explosion -- Ausbruch. Our word Toothbrush is more powerful than that. It seems to me that the Germans could do worse than import it into their language to describe particularly tremendous explosions with. The German word for hell -- Hölle -- sounds more like helly than anything else; therefore, how necessary chipper, frivolous, and unimpressive it is. If a man were told in German to go there, could he really rise to thee dignity of feeling insulted?

 

[~Darkening~]

Originally Posted by North King.
I try to do the latter, though often I end up resorting to the former.

I guess its the way my brain works, but for some reason I start out the first way but after a while it turns to switch over to the latter. I started to believe that I'm weird, so I'm trying to figure out how other people do it.

Du hasst mich.

I've only begun- stop trying to make me read ahead . I got the gist, but I refuse to use a translator, so I'll come up with a retort in a few months for you.

Originally posted by Cleric.

German is good if you want to yell, shout, give orders and generally be angry. I hate pretty much everything else about it. It's such a crude language, not very pleasant to listen to.

I guess that's the same picture I'm getting from it. Maybe I hate it because I dislike angry people. Who knows?

Originally Posted by Symphony_D
You can get in line with Mark Twain.

I honestly started to read through that. After getting through the first couple of paragraphs I got scared and ceased with the reading. Thank you. I have so much to look forward to now.

Originally posted by Luckymoose.
English is the best language for that exact reason.

I know plenty of people who sound angry when speaking English. I'm hoping that it (German) will depend more upon tone than any built in mechanism, but I'm not exactly enthusiastic about it.

Originally posted by Das
I think in two languages, sometimes mixed in, sometimes at a time, though usually (and thankfully) separately. I generally think about things I read or intend to write in English in that language, and in Russian about things I read or intend to say or write in Russian.

I guess it really depends upon the language I'm (attempting) to speak. The ones I have a greater understanding of tends to allow me to think in those terms, so I really don't think of the English terms unless I haven't a lot of experience in that aspect. It's kind of confusing, but unless the concept becomes harder for me to put together, I tend to utilize whatever I'm attempting to utilize. I know more Spanish and French than anything else, so if I'm using that tongue, I tend to think in that language. German or another one, I think in English then translate the words directly in my head (or paper).

So, I guess that I utilize whatever I am speaking to think when I have to. I mean, if I'm speaking to someone who naturally speaks Spanish, I'll think in Spanish to ease the time it takes me to respond.....Yeah, I think I confused myself too.

That said, I do tend to try and translate words, sentences and especially odd, mostly-language-exclusive turns of speech into another language, and it is most often from Russian into English.

I hate Cyrillic- perhaps even more than German. Something about having to forget all the Latin that was hardwired into my head is giving me trouble. Every time I attempt to learn the alphabet I end up switching between it and the Latin, and end up wallowing in despair to the point I give up. It would be a nice gesture upon the Russian part to eh world if they simple destroyed their alphabet. When you get elected, do us a favor and do this.

It's one of the easiest languages to learn for an English speaker, so I'm actually shocked that you don't like it that much. Grammar's basically the same, lots of cognates, and if you want to make a long word you just tack on prefixes...not all that difficult, IMHO. I'm biased, of course.

Maybe it's because I've only been studying it a few weeks. I haven't really haven't got that far- German tends to put in a bad mood like Cyrillic, so its a lot of stop and go on my part. I can definitely tell you that I hate its sound and appearance (not a big fan of English, but meh). To me 'isst' just looks wrong. I'm sorry. It just makes me want to sigh and throw everything I've done so far away.

If you don't mind, anyone care to explain why exactly 'sie' is applied to both the 3rd feminine and 3rd plural? I haven't really seen it as a feminine dominated language, so I don't think it's the reverse of the standard romances (Third being given to masc. and all that), through I may just be wrong? Is it anything to do with the crazy German genders?

And since I've been quiet for a little while, I've decided today to be my excessive-whining day. Sorry. I'll be quiet again soon.

 

[das]

It would be a nice gesture upon the Russian part to eh world if they simple destroyed their alphabet. When you get elected, do us a favor and do this.

It's not nearly as bad as it used to be, but it still is something of an oddity that it survived for so long. Attempts to Latinise it have been around since the late 17th century, I think (funnily enough, Germans were almost always involved).

 

[Dachs]

Amusing corollary: there is a thread in the OT that is strikingly similar to this one. Taras Bulba is asking for help with his German work...

I've only begun- stop trying to make me read ahead . I got the gist, but I refuse to use a translator, so I'll come up with a retort in a few months for you.

No retort necessary; he was saying that you hate him.

I guess that's the same picture I'm getting from it. Maybe I hate it because I dislike angry people. Who knows?

I'm not an angry person...

I hate Cyrillic- perhaps even more than German. Something about having to forget all the Latin that was hardwired into my head is giving me trouble. Every time I attempt to learn the alphabet I end up switching between it and the Latin, and end up wallowing in despair to the point I give up. It would be a nice gesture upon the Russian part to eh world if they simple destroyed their alphabet. When you get elected, do us a favor and do this.

I would recommend this for Arabic, as well, but the alphabet is too pretty to destroy, and I have honestly got no clue as to how anybody would attempt to transliterate the ayn.

I can definitely tell you that I hate its sound and appearance (not a big fan of English, but meh). To me 'isst' just looks wrong. I'm sorry. It just makes me want to sigh and throw everything I've done so far away.

You get discouraged easily.

If you don't mind, anyone care to explain why exactly 'sie' is applied to both the 3rd feminine and 3rd plural? I haven't really seen it as a feminine dominated language, so I don't think it's the reverse of the standard romances (Third being given to masc. and all that), through I may just be wrong? Is it anything to do with the crazy German genders?

The 'sie' that is used for the third person plural isn't really the same word as the 'sie' that is third person feminine. Any connection there is imagined on your part? (There probably is actually a connection, because you use the same word for their possessive forms too - for the record, it's 'ihr' - but it's irrelevant.) Conjugation is different for both of those, so it's always easy to tell which is which. Makes life easier, IMHO, because you only have to remember one word for two things, but you can tell the difference between the two by simply looking at the verb...

As to 'crazy German genders', I honestly can't see how their genders are any crazier than French, Spanish, or Italian ones.

And since I've been quiet for a little while, I've decided today to be my excessive-whining day. Sorry. I'll be quiet again soon.

'Quiet' doesn't increase your postcount.

It's not nearly as bad as it used to be, but it still is something of an oddity that it survived for so long. Attempts to Latinise it have been around since the late 17th century, I think (funnily enough, Germans were almost always involved).

Dachspmg supports this initiative. Valve probably doesn't, because then it would be easier to tell if Half-Life 2 takes place in Bulgaria, Ukraine, or Russia...

 

[North King]

Bad plays on Rammstein lyrics for the lose.

I actually noticed that after I wrote it.

I guess its the way my brain works, but for some reason I start out the first way but after a while it turns to switch over to the latter. I started to believe that I'm weird, so I'm trying to figure out how other people do it.

Well, eventually you switch over to the latter way once you learn enough of it, but I don't usually think like that because I've never gotten that far in a language.

Sucky foreign language classes in HS suck.

I've only begun- stop trying to make me read ahead . I got the gist, but I refuse to use a translator, so I'll come up with a retort in a few months for you.

If you don't mind, anyone care to explain why exactly 'sie' is applied to both the 3rd feminine and 3rd plural? I haven't really seen it as a feminine dominated language, so I don't think it's the reverse of the standard romances (Third being given to masc. and all that), through I may just be wrong? Is it anything to do with the crazy German genders?

Don't forget second person formal.

I hate genders. I really do.


As a side note, it sucks to sing in German, despite what everyone says. Don't do it. It sounds ugly. If you're looking for a language to sing in, just sing in French and get someone to tell you the pronunciation instead of trying to puzzle it out from the spelling. On the other hand, Italian works as well.

(Actually the funnest song I ever sang was in Serbian, but that's a long story.)

 

[Luckymoose]

Colin Powell is off my awesome black guys list.

 

[Dachs]

Don't forget second person formal.

I hate genders. I really do.

Bonus: in Arabic, there is no neutral gender. What sucks: in Arabic, there are separate genders for plurals referring to two persons, and for plurals referring to more than two.

As a side note, it sucks to sing in German, despite what everyone says. Don't do it. It sounds ugly. If you're looking for a language to sing in, just sing in French and get someone to tell you the pronunciation instead of trying to puzzle it out from the spelling. On the other hand, Italian works as well.

You're just a hater. j/k.

 

[silver 2039]

I like Morgenstern. Though Reise, Reise is pretty good too. Oh and Mein Teil.

 

[Dachs]

Though Reise, Reise is pretty good too.

Do you have the version that includes the bits of flight recorder from JAL 123?

 

[Sheep]

Colin Powell is off my awesome black guys list.

Well he was perhaps one of the most un-black black men.

 

[Dachs]

Oh, by the way...happy Navarino?

Well he was perhaps one of the most un-black black men.

How bout those silly preconceived notions about what 'black' means?

 

[silver 2039]

Do you have the version that includes the bits of flight recorder from JAL 123?

No don't think so. I download most of my music needs. I have Reise, Reise, Live Aus Berlin, Volkerball, Rosenrot, Sensuhut, Herzheild, and Mutter.

 

[Kal'thzar]

German is a funky langauge

For translating, I'd say it depends on what words I'm using. Something that I use everyday to communicate, I can usually formulate something coherant, Something rather more specilist I'll try and translate (Dictionaries etc don't really respond well to some of the Physics Jargon :\). Then again my perspective is more for being able to converse, say something and damn the grammer.

Also Rammstein died for me the day my mother came in and translated every word, sure I'll still listen to it, I just filter out my 'understanding'.

 

[Dachs]

No don't think so. I download most of my music needs. I have Reise, Reise, Live Aus Berlin, Volkerball, Rosenrot, Sensuhut, Herzheild, and Mutter.

Mostly good stuff.

Also Rammstein died for me the day my mother came in and translated every word, sure I'll still listen to it, I just filter out my 'understanding'.

If you did that with something inane like Du hast than I can understand that. But Dalai Lama, for example, ain't bad at all (Weiter, weiter ins Verderben - further, further into doom...how can that be bad? ).

 

[Sheep]

How bout those silly preconceived notions about what 'black' means?

True, stereotypes dont work.


I think I just stereotyped stereotypes.