Actually, right now we're in the middle of a monsoon. Everything'll dry out in 15 minutes though.
In other news, is it possible to join #NES using ChatZilla? I can't seem to find its network.
While We Wait: Part 5
- Thread starter North King
- Start date
Actually, right now we're in the middle of a monsoon. Everything'll dry out in 15 minutes though.
In other news, is it possible to join #NES using ChatZilla? I can't seem to find its network.
Huh. You read into my comment that the United States has more commitments abroad than the UK, that I believe that the UK is 'letting down the US'. That's not at all what I think; regardless of my position on Iraq, Afghanistan, or anything in between, the US commits more troops and material and cash than the UK mostly because it's bigger. For me to suggest that the UK, where (if I'm not mistaken) it is easier to block increased troop commitments, and where the troop numbers to commit are smaller in the beginning anyway, should send as much as the US, would be a statement of gross idiocy on my part and I'm mildly offended that you took that statement as such.
Or not.
I know that despite a higher amount of dissension both within the government and without, the UK is contributing a large amount of men and material to the conflicts it's in, commitments that are wildly incommensurate with any sort of motivation to do so. I wouldn't denigrate any efforts myself (again, regardless of my positions on the conflicts themselves, which are neither here nor there), although of course I can't speak for the American Fourth Estate.
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
Well, Europe likes Obama, so vote for him if you do not want to be bashed with a Polish trout.
Great. The Polish references are creeping in even here.
flyingchicken
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2007
- Messages
- 3,783
We, the people of the Philippines, demand debt idiocy relief!
[rant]
PRESIDENT MARCOS[link]: "Guys, let's build a nuclear power plant. Half of the 2.3 billion dollar investment goes to my pocket, of course, but at least you get cheaper electricity."
GUYS: "Cool beans!"
(One nuclear power plant and a bloodless revolution later...)
SENATORS: "Guys, the expensive plant was born of OPPRESSION and CORRUPTION. We must SHUT IT DOWN and NEVER USE IT even if we're STILL PAYING AND HAVE BEEN PAYING FOR ITS CONSTRUCTION!"
GUYS: "Cool beans!"
[/rant]
[rant]
PRESIDENT MARCOS[link]: "Guys, let's build a nuclear power plant. Half of the 2.3 billion dollar investment goes to my pocket, of course, but at least you get cheaper electricity."
GUYS: "Cool beans!"
(One nuclear power plant and a bloodless revolution later...)
SENATORS: "Guys, the expensive plant was born of OPPRESSION and CORRUPTION. We must SHUT IT DOWN and NEVER USE IT even if we're STILL PAYING AND HAVE BEEN PAYING FOR ITS CONSTRUCTION!"
GUYS: "Cool beans!"
[/rant]
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
No actual reference. I just used my Random European Nation Generator (RENG).
I'm not going to go into either of the candidates characteristics, there politicians they are parodies of human character, they do everything imaginable to project a vote winning persona, its dishonest but its what they all do when they hit the big league.
McCain isn't really a Maverick at the moment (he probably was (?) but he's sold his soul to gain more votes by sliding to the right to appeal to more conservatives. Obama isn't really going to offer "Change" his idea of change and that of his different voter groups has a big disconnect, he's slid to the centre to capture more votes and probably sold some parts of his Liberal soul. Its posturing and all high profile politicians do it to capture office, "my" Prime Minister made himself out to be an angel and apparently swears like a sailor at his staffers...
As to the economic policies of each candidate, both have good policies and bad policies, Obamas show a preference for behavioural economics, as do his economics advisors, I must note he has some well respected neo-classical economists on staff as well (I must note a certain member of Obamas economics staff was torn into for supporting Wal-Mart in an article a few years back, to his credit Obama kept him on staff and didnt bat an eyelid). McCain tends to favour neo-classical economists, some of his choices have not been dubious but surprising, not second rate but not the normal choices for Republican candidates apparently (cant comment on if that is a good choice or not, taken individually his economists seem to be only slightly less prestigious than Obamas). To his credit Obama has refrained from anything silly, his questioning of NAFTA was criticised even by the NYT and his taxation policies have gotten some fairly positive feedback, they are the more fiscally prudent choice (although big spending items would blow this out of the water, so as it stands it is the better option, although it would win extra points if he promised to make a move against pork barrelling and earmarks). McCains flipping on the Bush tax cuts is interesting in itself, his also self confessed weakness in economics policy honestly doesnt matter (in my experience most Ministers (Westminster system) have no idea about what they are doing thats why you have, a Secretary of the Treasury, a staff of economists and the Treasury) at least hes honest. Even neo-classical economists not normally a friend of tax increases are questioning the effect of the Bush tax cuts, theres a constant scream from the left about it contributing to income inequality and the distribution of economic growth and some of it is doubtless justified a lot if it is just silly but oh well both sides do it.
Part 1:
Im rather neutral not being an American, not caring if Obama is black, nor caring if McCain is this horrible conservative or not. And I tend to look on both sides of politics with more than a little scepticism; they are just as bad as each other. If I was anything in the American political spectrum I would probably fall into the Small Government Wing of the Republican Party, but if anyones noticed most of those have slunk over to the Libertarian Party to vote for Bob Barr (I would not). Nor do I really fit in there either, Australian politics is markedly different aside from the two parties, and I draw my influences from different sources Classical Liberalism in the UK, Australian if you will openness (not being an Australian by birth) etc.
In that sense my voting issues are totally different, and I could not care less about abortion in the way many people get riled about it over their no disrespect, it's just not a trigger issue.
McCain isn't really a Maverick at the moment (he probably was (?) but he's sold his soul to gain more votes by sliding to the right to appeal to more conservatives. Obama isn't really going to offer "Change" his idea of change and that of his different voter groups has a big disconnect, he's slid to the centre to capture more votes and probably sold some parts of his Liberal soul. Its posturing and all high profile politicians do it to capture office, "my" Prime Minister made himself out to be an angel and apparently swears like a sailor at his staffers...
As to the economic policies of each candidate, both have good policies and bad policies, Obamas show a preference for behavioural economics, as do his economics advisors, I must note he has some well respected neo-classical economists on staff as well (I must note a certain member of Obamas economics staff was torn into for supporting Wal-Mart in an article a few years back, to his credit Obama kept him on staff and didnt bat an eyelid). McCain tends to favour neo-classical economists, some of his choices have not been dubious but surprising, not second rate but not the normal choices for Republican candidates apparently (cant comment on if that is a good choice or not, taken individually his economists seem to be only slightly less prestigious than Obamas). To his credit Obama has refrained from anything silly, his questioning of NAFTA was criticised even by the NYT and his taxation policies have gotten some fairly positive feedback, they are the more fiscally prudent choice (although big spending items would blow this out of the water, so as it stands it is the better option, although it would win extra points if he promised to make a move against pork barrelling and earmarks). McCains flipping on the Bush tax cuts is interesting in itself, his also self confessed weakness in economics policy honestly doesnt matter (in my experience most Ministers (Westminster system) have no idea about what they are doing thats why you have, a Secretary of the Treasury, a staff of economists and the Treasury) at least hes honest. Even neo-classical economists not normally a friend of tax increases are questioning the effect of the Bush tax cuts, theres a constant scream from the left about it contributing to income inequality and the distribution of economic growth and some of it is doubtless justified a lot if it is just silly but oh well both sides do it.
Part 1:
Im rather neutral not being an American, not caring if Obama is black, nor caring if McCain is this horrible conservative or not. And I tend to look on both sides of politics with more than a little scepticism; they are just as bad as each other. If I was anything in the American political spectrum I would probably fall into the Small Government Wing of the Republican Party, but if anyones noticed most of those have slunk over to the Libertarian Party to vote for Bob Barr (I would not). Nor do I really fit in there either, Australian politics is markedly different aside from the two parties, and I draw my influences from different sources Classical Liberalism in the UK, Australian if you will openness (not being an Australian by birth) etc.
In that sense my voting issues are totally different, and I could not care less about abortion in the way many people get riled about it over their no disrespect, it's just not a trigger issue.
silver 2039
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 16,208
Well I'm voting for Obama. I need to register once I get into the US.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
They're going to...LET silver into the US?
...
I'm scared.
...
I'm scared.
Symphony D.
Deity
I'm not going to go through this whole discussion point by point.
Jimmy Carter: ********, however his negotiations only failed because the Iranians intensely hated him. They were real proud of themselves for helping get Reagan into office--until they realized he was going to bomb them. There is nothing fundamentally wrong about talking to our enemies. We're the freaking world superpower--what do we have to be afraid of when talking to people? We can always just walk out afterwards.
I personally think McCain is legitimately mentally slipping, however.
- You have his incident during the Republican Primary where he deliberately misinterpreted Mitt Romney's remarks on Iraq, and said he was determined to pull out, even though it was clear that wasn't what he meant. When confronted with this, McCain absolutely refused to budge on the issue.
- Similarly, he at one point said that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the leader of Iran. In the vein of Fidel Castro and Kim Jong Il. Despite the fact everyone in the world acknowledges Ahmadinejad is a figurehead. When confronted with this, McCain once again absolutely refused to budge on the issue, effectively claiming that because Americans thought it was true, it must be.
You have his numerous gaffes, which are completely uncovered by the media (which Obama would have been buried for) and which, although maybe a product of being tired, don't seem like it.
- Saying that Iraq was Shia.
- Saying Sunni and Shia had a wonderful history of cooperation together.
- Calling the Czech Republic and Slovakia... Czechoslovakia. Four times. 15 years after it dissolved.
- "We're going to drill right here! Right now!"
- The list goes on.
You have a poorly organized campaign, that relies on slight-of-hand, gimmicks, and is just generally bad:
- The whole "Barrack is a celebrity" ad with Hilton and Spears--nevermind that John McCain has had several TV and movie cameos. Apparently drawing crowds to you is a bad thing!
- lolol tire gauges being ignorant is fun!
- Volunteering his wife for a nude beauty contest in Sturgis.
- Defaming Obama as "elitist" when his wife ran up $750,000 in credit card charges in a single month and commented that Arizona "is a state you really need a private plane to get around in."
- Attacking the personal character--not just the record, or the experience, but the literal person himself--of Obama.
- Let's lie and say we can get oil rigs operation off the coast within months! Not a decade!
- I can't come up with a short term solution so lets offer a $300 million gimmick prize to whoever comes up with awesome battery technology!
- And last, but not least, and most disturbingly of all: "John McCain does not speak for the McCain Campaign." (02:30)
This is before going on to the fact that 2000 McCain is dead, and 2008 McCain is this:
[EDIT] I forgot: "Surge" stands for inSURGEncy guys! Mainly COUNTER-inSURGEncy! It was implemented months before Bush ever sent troops, which caused the Sunni awakening, not the other way around! And we saved those Sheiks, they weren't murdered or anything ... What do you mean it means "swell in numbers"?
Fission power: ********. The most recent speech McCain gave? Right next to a reactor (he was in No.2, I'm talking about No.1) that suffered a partial meltdown in the 1960s. It'd be like if Putin went and gave a speech about boosting nuclear power output on top of Chernobyl. We have almost had at least two more partial meltdowns in this country since Chernobyl. Our safety records on nukes suck. They're also incredibly expensive without government subsidies. And lastly, we have no effective way to deal with the waste (don't even mention Yucca Mountain), except to reprocess the hell out of it. Know what you get doing that? Plutonium! What's it only good for? Atomic bombs!
Jimmy Carter: ********, however his negotiations only failed because the Iranians intensely hated him. They were real proud of themselves for helping get Reagan into office--until they realized he was going to bomb them. There is nothing fundamentally wrong about talking to our enemies. We're the freaking world superpower--what do we have to be afraid of when talking to people? We can always just walk out afterwards.
I personally think McCain is legitimately mentally slipping, however.
- You have his incident during the Republican Primary where he deliberately misinterpreted Mitt Romney's remarks on Iraq, and said he was determined to pull out, even though it was clear that wasn't what he meant. When confronted with this, McCain absolutely refused to budge on the issue.
- Similarly, he at one point said that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the leader of Iran. In the vein of Fidel Castro and Kim Jong Il. Despite the fact everyone in the world acknowledges Ahmadinejad is a figurehead. When confronted with this, McCain once again absolutely refused to budge on the issue, effectively claiming that because Americans thought it was true, it must be.
You have his numerous gaffes, which are completely uncovered by the media (which Obama would have been buried for) and which, although maybe a product of being tired, don't seem like it.
- Saying that Iraq was Shia.
- Saying Sunni and Shia had a wonderful history of cooperation together.
- Calling the Czech Republic and Slovakia... Czechoslovakia. Four times. 15 years after it dissolved.
- "We're going to drill right here! Right now!"
- The list goes on.
You have a poorly organized campaign, that relies on slight-of-hand, gimmicks, and is just generally bad:
- The whole "Barrack is a celebrity" ad with Hilton and Spears--nevermind that John McCain has had several TV and movie cameos. Apparently drawing crowds to you is a bad thing!
- lolol tire gauges being ignorant is fun!
- Volunteering his wife for a nude beauty contest in Sturgis.
- Defaming Obama as "elitist" when his wife ran up $750,000 in credit card charges in a single month and commented that Arizona "is a state you really need a private plane to get around in."
- Attacking the personal character--not just the record, or the experience, but the literal person himself--of Obama.
- Let's lie and say we can get oil rigs operation off the coast within months! Not a decade!
- I can't come up with a short term solution so lets offer a $300 million gimmick prize to whoever comes up with awesome battery technology!
- And last, but not least, and most disturbingly of all: "John McCain does not speak for the McCain Campaign." (02:30)
For frak's sake. At the risk of paraphrasing General Wesley Clark, a man I detest, crashing a jet and getting beat up by North Vietnamese goons does not qualify you to be President. John McCain's service was admirable, and should be respected. It gives him jack all of an advantage as Commander in Chief.
This is before going on to the fact that 2000 McCain is dead, and 2008 McCain is this:
[EDIT] I forgot: "Surge" stands for inSURGEncy guys! Mainly COUNTER-inSURGEncy! It was implemented months before Bush ever sent troops, which caused the Sunni awakening, not the other way around! And we saved those Sheiks, they weren't murdered or anything ... What do you mean it means "swell in numbers"?
Kozmos
Jew Detective
Symph if I could love someone, it would be you.
Symphony D.
Deity
I'm sure you could make a similar list for Obama. It will not betray deep-seated problems with the man's mentality or capabilities though, nor does it reveal such a fatally flawed campaign, so much as the usual run of gaffes or mistakes.
The only reason McCain has a remote chance of winning is because he has turned the race into a referendum on Obama, just like Kerry tried to do on Bush ("Anybody but Bush"). The trouble is, just like it did for Kerry, that can come back around and bite you. Right now, people have more or less ignored or never learned of McCain's own terrible mistakes and oddities. Given how low the DNC has been laying, you can bet they're building a war chest to put McCain down. I anticipate it's arrival after the Conventions. You're going to become quite familiar with all the material listed above.
Personally, I also endorse Obama because his agenda is the more strategically sound. America is suffering from several internal problems and a rather poor reputation right now. We need to put those in order before going on another dominance spree. This is our "consolidation" and "Bad Boy reduction" downtime. McCain is a liability both on platform and in person.
The only reason McCain has a remote chance of winning is because he has turned the race into a referendum on Obama, just like Kerry tried to do on Bush ("Anybody but Bush"). The trouble is, just like it did for Kerry, that can come back around and bite you. Right now, people have more or less ignored or never learned of McCain's own terrible mistakes and oddities. Given how low the DNC has been laying, you can bet they're building a war chest to put McCain down. I anticipate it's arrival after the Conventions. You're going to become quite familiar with all the material listed above.
Personally, I also endorse Obama because his agenda is the more strategically sound. America is suffering from several internal problems and a rather poor reputation right now. We need to put those in order before going on another dominance spree. This is our "consolidation" and "Bad Boy reduction" downtime. McCain is a liability both on platform and in person.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
I wish I had a computer.
Last time I checked, the vast majority of France's electricity was provided by fission power. No mushroom clouds looming on the horizon over here. Honestly, reactor technology is SO far beyond the Three Mile Island era, and even that, as well as Chernobyl, are regarded as idiotic flukes that are impossible to repeat in the modern day, mostly due to the reaction from said disasters.
OH NOES, McCain hugged the President. That must mean he openly shares all of the Bush Administration's views and actively supports them, right? Right?
But I agree, the circumstances of his captivity alone don't qualify him for leadership. However, his response to them certainly demonstrated character.
Last time I checked, the vast majority of France's electricity was provided by fission power. No mushroom clouds looming on the horizon over here. Honestly, reactor technology is SO far beyond the Three Mile Island era, and even that, as well as Chernobyl, are regarded as idiotic flukes that are impossible to repeat in the modern day, mostly due to the reaction from said disasters.
OH NOES, McCain hugged the President. That must mean he openly shares all of the Bush Administration's views and actively supports them, right? Right?
But I agree, the circumstances of his captivity alone don't qualify him for leadership. However, his response to them certainly demonstrated character.
Symphony D.
Deity
Incorrect. There have been eight partial meltdowns. There have been many, many more nuclear accidents. Here's another one just for fun. France doesn't have as many problems as the others because France actually has competent monitoring agencies. America does not. Pretending they will magically appear after nuclear power plants are built--particularly when we have so recently had huge problems (see the end of the second list) is wishful thinking at best.
And dangerous ignorance at worst.
This is ignoring the fact that certification for nuclear plants takes years, and construction and testing takes even longer, so that even if we were to start building reactors today, we wouldn't see any advantages until around 2020.
It'd be a valid criticism if he hadn't changed all his positions so that he did. He didn't use to support drilling in ANWAR, now he does. He didn't use to support offshore drilling, now he does. Ad nauseum. He can't even keep up with Bush, who has been openly pilfering Obama's ideas on speaking with the Iranians and withdrawing forces when the Iraqis demand we do so--leaving McCain sitting there holding the "100 years" bag.
In my opinion, Mccain is simply flip-flopping to make the far right happy, and to secure his voting base. His real policies will come out during the white house years, if he is elected. Just as Bush became more conservative in the White House Mccain would become less so.
Symphony D.
Deity
You'd think that. Just like you could promise corporate lobbyists or evangelicals or whoever the Moon to get their money, then pull the plug on them, and they couldn't do jack to touch you because you were the freaking President of the United States.
Yet Presidents pretty much never do. Particularly when the people they have to pull the plug on is their own party. Politicians, much like common criminals and dictators, are generally stupid and incapable of being the evil geniuses popular imagination paints them to be.
Yet Presidents pretty much never do. Particularly when the people they have to pull the plug on is their own party. Politicians, much like common criminals and dictators, are generally stupid and incapable of being the evil geniuses popular imagination paints them to be.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Nah they're playing the long game - how many lucrative speaking tours will you get invited on when you piss off your supporters
?
Symphony D.
Deity
Clearly by playing the middle crowd rather than the ends you wind up having a much greater audience during a speaking career, however. The silent majority won't speak up for you while you're in office and whoever you ripped off is screaming for your head, but they'll still come listen to you later.
MooseWarrior
Prince
I don't think Canada wants the Bills to move to Toronto, for one, it would probably dissolve the Canadian Football League. Also, I don't think most people in Toronto want to "steal" a team, they want their own. Also, Canada's trying to keep the NFL away, I think they're trying to pass laws that enable heavy gambling on NFL games, and the NFL doesn't like gambling. But, I'm not too sure about any of this I live across the border from Canada.
