While We Wait: The Next Generation

[Crezth]

Novels last when they provide timeless and universally applicable themes. The question you must ask yourself is, do the popular novels of today provide timeless and universally applicable themes? The argument has been made of Harry Potter.

Let's also consider what is now classic and what is considered trash. In his time, Shakespeare was "just another playwright." Now he is the greatest writer in all of English literature. When does the split happen? When does someone cease being "just another playwright" and become the greatest writer of all time?

If you ask me the great American novel has already been written (the Great Gatsby), but deciding upon what will be a classic in 100 years takes more than "is it popular now?" The very suggestion that Twilight could be considered anything but pure unadulterated trash is reprehensible to me, not because of it's vapid story but because of the shoddy writing style and shallow themes. There is also a difference between "great writing" and "popular writing," but that's a discussion for another day.

 

[Masada]

On a literary level Harry Potterisn't all that crash hot. It's technical construction is quite poor, it's riddled with cliches, terrible metaphors, a plot which slipped into the ridiculous and with writing which slips precipitously at times - ie. the whole final book. I liked the first 4 books - The Goblet of Fire was overwritten a touch though - and consumed them with unadulterated pleasure. But I had to physically force myself to read through the others which got progressively worse until... that thing at the end which was no credit to the author. This might be due to my age and my expanding literary tastes... or it might just be the poor quality of the writing. In any case my sister who is significantly younger than myself - incidentally she is the core audience for Twilight, which she found boring - found the last few Harry Potter books to be as painful.

I also find its themes to be poorly expressed, stilted and frankly droll. They are however appropriate to the audience she is aiming her books at. If anything the themes are so inoffensive and so universal that they are going to be eternal no matter what happens... The themes themselves are cliched just with magic!

Do I think it will have staying power? Yes. Do I necessarily think they will be used in English teaching or gain any sort of institutional hold, I honestly hope not. It's popular literature and it'll become a classic simply on the basis of parents giving their copies to children (or siblings in my case) and it'll ride the wave onwards to becoming a 'classic'...

That isn't the elitists opinion, that is simply someone who quite liked the books when I was young, decided I disliked the later books and watches the movies when they come out

Ewww the Great Gatsby... must the Faulknerian in me.

 

[das]

It will survive for a long time on sheer fandom regardless of its quality or lack thereof. The same applies to all other works of art (the differences between how this works today and how it worked in, say, the 16th century, are appreciable, but ultimately quantitative only), as a strong following is the one final deciding factor and everything else, definitely including random chance, is important inasmuch as it helps or hinders the creation of a persistent (multigenerational) following.

 

[Kozmos]

Indeed, there are many trash books of the old that simply survived because of their fans and critical acclaim of the time.

 

[Kentharu]

Shakespeare is overrated.

 

[Azale]

Shakespeare is overrated.

No...he's not? But this is slowly unraveling to offtopicness...

So, how about a Shakespeare NES?

 

[Adrogans]

I would probably laugh really hard if someone did that.

 

[Kozmos]

Ten cents that there would be an emo stat.

 

[Thlayli]

For NESes, it would be a lot harder if diplomacy had to be written in the native language.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Venice attempted an amphibious landing against Scotland, but their general killed his wife shortly before committing suicide, drawing the campaign to a quick close. The Scottish King celebrated by killing off much of his own nobility, triggering unfortunate reprisals from England...
(+5 English Camouflaged Infantry Divisions)

 

[das]

That's actually the sort of stuff I intend to have one day. Generals and governors behaving erratically and unreliably FTW!

 

[Dachs]

Wow, way to totally go off topic.

The question i pose is how can NESing have quality if quality cannot be defined or generalized. Unless quality is defined as an individual preference and if it is, then wouldn't that make irrelevant?

Which was part of the point. If people can recognize the composition and creation of music, or art, or literature as having "quality" regardless of content, why ought that not extend to NESing? Do some NESes have "quality" as opposed to others, and what defines it?

Cool, a philosophical discussion.

I'm sure things can have quality that isn't just purely subjective. Most people acknowledge that even if they don't like The Scarlet Letter, that it's a classic work of literature. The current stuff, Harry Potter, Twilight, whatever, is probably not going to be around, even if it's widely popular.

 

[Oruc]

Anyone gonna make a magic nes?

 

[Azale]

How was that a troll? In any fashion?

This all started because of your horrid avatar, I hope your happy.

 

[Dachs]

How was that a troll? In any fashion?

Comment made to draw the discussion off topic. That's a troll, ladies and gentlemen.

This all started because of your horrid avatar, I hope your happy.

I would be if you discussed the concept of NES quality irrespective of subject matter.

 

[Azale]

Comment made to draw the discussion off topic. That's a troll, ladies and gentlemen.

I would be if you discussed the concept of NES quality irrespective of subject matter.

Off what topic? This is an open conversation topic on all things NES, and Lightfang's post clearly can be applied to NESing. He can't be blamed for other people taking it OT (me included).

I clearly think NES quality is not purely subjective. There, that's my opinion and I'm afraid to say anything more (for right now) lest I finally make enemies around this place

 

[Terrance888]

Something new to discuss...

My tale of Woe.


:I am serious:

.

Spoiler A Tale of Woe :

I remember on my First attempted NES: (Rise of the Central Valley). You guys ran all over me and I just gave up.

Ok, Second try:Althistorical Timeline Generation I didn't have enough players and was bored because no one really cared.

Third try: Rise of Classical Nations: I didn't get the rules straight before they went all over me, then I got caught up in the update.

Forth try: First good Nes/LazyNes: The Great War lasted 7 turns and ended with lack of interest.

Fifth try: ChuckMRTOR: Amon's Legacy Well... lack of interest I guess. I try to get more but lack of orders, bans and other unpleasentries culled it at 7.

Sixth try: in the Forum games Forum I posted the test drive of Great War II: Being ignored even though It has been viewed at least 50 times.

My history of Modding. Hope you are all happy at seeing my ship wreaks along the way.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Gah!

Watched Return of the King again, and now I want to take part in an epic game of absolutes, good vs evil, control of the world. Waves of Horsemen crashing down on my puny enemies, and elephants too big to exist crushing all before them.


*grumble*

Update NK!

 

[Dachs]

Off what topic? This is an open conversation topic on all things NES, and Lightfang's post clearly can be applied to NESing. He can't be blamed for other people taking it OT (me included).

I clearly think NES quality is not purely subjective. There, that's my opinion and I'm afraid to say anything more (for right now) lest I finally make enemies around this place

Fair enough. How would one measure NES quality?

 

[Oruc]

Something new to discuss...

My tale of Woe.


:I am serious:

.

Spoiler A Tale of Woe :

I remember on my First attempted NES: (Rise of the Central Valley). You guys ran all over me and I just gave up.

Ok, Second try:Althistorical Timeline Generation I didn't have enough players and was bored because no one really cared.

Third try: Rise of Classical Nations: I didn't get the rules straight before they went all over me, then I got caught up in the update.

Forth try: First good Nes/LazyNes: The Great War lasted 7 turns and ended with lack of interest.

Fifth try: ChuckMRTOR: Amon's Legacy Well... lack of interest I guess. I try to get more but lack of orders, bans and other unpleasentries culled it at 7.

Sixth try: in the Forum games Forum I posted the test drive of Great War II: Being ignored even though It has been viewed at least 50 times.

My history of Modding. Hope you are all happy at seeing my ship wreaks along the way.

I am

Gah!

Watched Return of the King again, and now I want to take part in an epic game of absolutes, good vs evil, control of the world. Waves of Horsemen crashing down on my puny enemies, and elephants too big to exist crushing all before them.


*grumble*

Update NK!

Elves were evil, didn't give the orcs a chance, stuck up ********