Lord_Herobrine
Back in the Saddle
I cannot believe that they plan to colonize mars in just 10 years
. I would personally not sign up, since its a one-way trip.
While We Wait: Writer's Block & Other Lame Excuses
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I cannot believe that they plan to colonize mars in just 10 years
. I would personally not sign up, since its a one-way trip.SKILORD
Insurgent
There's nothing wrong with one way trips, and don't get too worked up about "permanent situations."
I have, often, tried to take a one way trip away from CFC. Never works.
I imagine that Earth would be much like CFC, except bigger and with more trees.
I have, often, tried to take a one way trip away from CFC. Never works.
I imagine that Earth would be much like CFC, except bigger and with more trees.
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
Private enterprise colonization?
tuxedohamm
Disguised as crow.
The issue with the voting is that the kinds of people likely to get voted on in a reality style show are the kind of people that will doom the mission to a catastrophic failure, possibly before they even get out of the atmosphere.
It's a one way trip because Joe McPopular accidentally managed to gain flight controls from ground control and fires off a transition burn from Earth orbit to a close encounter with the Sun.
It's a one way trip because Joe McPopular accidentally managed to gain flight controls from ground control and fires off a transition burn from Earth orbit to a close encounter with the Sun.
Lord_Herobrine
Back in the Saddle
Exactly why I think that the 9 other teams that will be kept trained throughout the missions will be required.
Also on the on-way trip topic, look at settlers of the New World. They were pretty much dumped here and left to fend for themselves. There was no aide (In most cases) from their home country. Granted they were not newcomers on an entirely different planet, but nonetheless.
Also on the on-way trip topic, look at settlers of the New World. They were pretty much dumped here and left to fend for themselves. There was no aide (In most cases) from their home country. Granted they were not newcomers on an entirely different planet, but nonetheless.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Not gonna happen. Fun to watch them try and fail though. Crazy schadenfreude.
Arrow Gamer
America's Dictator
Where are they getting the money? I understand they take donations and the competition will sell ad space, but I can't imagine they'll get enough cash to colonize Mars.
SKILORD
Insurgent
The 1% is fleeing from global warming. Money is not an issue.
Grandkhan
Telvanni Master Wizard
I, for one, welcome the construction of a Rapture-style colony on Mars.
Archeologists of the future will come down there to study what happened, and it will be fascinating.
Archeologists of the future will come down there to study what happened, and it will be fascinating.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
They're taking donations/investors (investing in the hoped-for reality show on Mars). Feasibly, they could scrounge up "enough" money, where enough is as proscribed by their preconceived notions of "how much money do we need," - and, indeed, that is why they are doing it - but that doesn't solve the incredible host of technical issues that they simply lack the cohort to tackle.
My wager is that they are aware of this and that this is an elaborate scheme or a publicity stunt. Their timetables for getting to Mars are ambitious, and that's about their only positive quality. Maybe that's enough for ideological Randians, to whom sweat is tantamount to progress, but to give you an idea of how this fares among serious engineers: virtually no senior aerospace engineer I've spoken to has been anything but amused at the project. There have been some who laud it for the message it sends, but for the many billions they're asking for let me assure you that that is one expensive message.
If you care about getting to Mars, write your congressman about upping NASA's funding.
Lord_Herobrine
Back in the Saddle
We are a species that went from first flight to a moon landing in 60 years. Almost 50 years later (will be at about mars one project) we are making prep to colonize a new planet. I believe in our race that we can do it with todays technology.
About the money issue, space agencies around the world would help and donate. Let alone how much they could get from government gifts.
Read further into the article and visit their site, all components for mission are being promised by different space agencies.
I dont think they want to make a Mars Reality show. They wanted the applications to be televised and massively interactive. They dont want to make a profit. They want to make history by founding the first martian colony.
About the money issue, space agencies around the world would help and donate. Let alone how much they could get from government gifts.
Read further into the article and visit their site, all components for mission are being promised by different space agencies.
I dont think they want to make a Mars Reality show. They wanted the applications to be televised and massively interactive. They dont want to make a profit. They want to make history by founding the first martian colony.
The fact that agriculture was possible here, the air was breathable, and the air pressure and temperature were enough to keep you alive for extended periods of time helped them a little bit.
As Crezth points out, the challenges of martian colonization are daunting. Still, I'm always happy to see some attention being put towards space exploration.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Tripe. Essentially feel-good nonsense. Yes, we've done "great" things before; and yes, it was seemingly on a moment's notice. That has nothing to do with the contours of this particular project nor the challenges it presents.
One of the promises of Mars One is that it is a governmentless endeavor, but you have correctly identified the reality which is that they will rely on NASA, the ESA, etc. And for more than just money, too: they require expertise and seasoned technicians. Of course that's what they're subcontracting out for, and that's what's gonna cost big money. We're talking billions.
Is it technically possible to have that much money? Of course. Is it realistic to expect? Not really.
Well, those bits and bobs are being speculated upon by subcontractors, which does not only include space agencies. It includes this motley crew, which does have some big names (SpaceX, Paragon, Alenia) but also some dubious new faces (Astrobotic, Surrey). And it makes no mention of concrete plans vis a vis being promised all components for the mission - these are simply those groups that sent "letters of interest."
The big thing Mars One has going for it is its ambitious pitch. But if it can't convince those suppliers and its sponsors that all are going to play ball, it's going to fall apart fast.
Don't beat around the bush. Call it what it is.
Lofty goals are nice and all, but at the end of the day they have to report to their investors - the same investors that they're getting the bulk of their funds from. Just as well, it being a private venture and all.
The bottom line is that while it'd be nice to have every space agency and aerospace firm get along and band together in one virtuous mission, it is unrealistic to expect it on such flimsy bases as "humans have done great things before, like the pyramids and indoor plumbing." Any other model you propose for the mission must either admit a profit margin or be heavily government-funded: the former is, has been, and will continue to be impossible for the foreseeable future; the latter gives us no more than what we have now. Which is a lot, but not enough.
e: I should add that I'd love to be proven wrong on this, and I'd love it if Mars One worked out like the Apollo Program (is a grand success); but the Apollo Program was a heavily regimented, ordered, and exceedingly well-funded government project that was given major priority by every upwards-facing aspect of the most powerful economic, militaristic, and technological authority of the time. Mars One has not so much going for it. Engineering for space is incredibly complicated, and the type of deep-space exploration this mission demands has never been accomplished by any official partner or supplier or sponsor of the Mars One group. It's simply far too much to expect.
And is anyone else thinking that setting up a permanent colony before the first human landing has even taken place is... grossly irresponsible? Or am I just uninformed about the current, sorry state of the world's non-robotic space programs?
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
The thinking is if we landed on Mars, we couldn't get back. So if you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound.
Grandkhan
Telvanni Master Wizard
Actually, just thinking about it, do we have the technology to actually establish a settlement on Mars? I mean, not just in terms of "Do we have the money to build the equipment?" but does humanity, as a collective intellectual mass, have the actual technological know-how to build a colony on Mars which will sustain life?
Lets start with the obvious; breathing. Are there scrubbers which can convert carbon dioxide (the vast majority of Mars' atmosphere) to oxygen? On a scale enough to actually breathe it, given Mars' atmosphere is extremely thin?
Next question; water. I suppose one could generate it from the CO2 in the air, but that requires lithium hydroxide scrubbers and sooner or later you'd run out of lithium hydroxide.
Food? How would you grow food on Mars? You could build some kind of garden using soil that you took with you from Earth, but again, where would you get the water from? Any water you use either takes away from your drinking stock or your stock of scrubber chemical.
Heating? Mars can be as cold as -90ºC at the equator - its even worse at the poles. How would you heat a settlement that cold? With what fuel? And where would you get it from? Ship it from Earth?
My point is that building a settlement on Mars is a huge technical endeavour that we don't really know how to deal with. These people have some insanely unrealistic expectations.
The big difference between a colony in the Americas and a colony on Mars is, beyond the huge difference in issues that has already been pointed out, the American settlers had friendly natives who would show them how to survive. Thats how Plymouth survived, for a starters. While I'm no expert, I'm not sure that we know how to survive there, and there aren't any friendly natives around to show us.
Lets start with the obvious; breathing. Are there scrubbers which can convert carbon dioxide (the vast majority of Mars' atmosphere) to oxygen? On a scale enough to actually breathe it, given Mars' atmosphere is extremely thin?
Next question; water. I suppose one could generate it from the CO2 in the air, but that requires lithium hydroxide scrubbers and sooner or later you'd run out of lithium hydroxide.
Food? How would you grow food on Mars? You could build some kind of garden using soil that you took with you from Earth, but again, where would you get the water from? Any water you use either takes away from your drinking stock or your stock of scrubber chemical.
Heating? Mars can be as cold as -90ºC at the equator - its even worse at the poles. How would you heat a settlement that cold? With what fuel? And where would you get it from? Ship it from Earth?
My point is that building a settlement on Mars is a huge technical endeavour that we don't really know how to deal with. These people have some insanely unrealistic expectations.
The big difference between a colony in the Americas and a colony on Mars is, beyond the huge difference in issues that has already been pointed out, the American settlers had friendly natives who would show them how to survive. Thats how Plymouth survived, for a starters. While I'm no expert, I'm not sure that we know how to survive there, and there aren't any friendly natives around to show us.
Lord_Herobrin said:
Wrong. Jamestown for instance had huge external inflows in terms of the manpower needed to sustain colonial efforts (in 1607 alone, the first year of colonization, Jamestown lost about 60 per cent of its population) and the constant inflow of food and capital goods needed in the first instance to survive and in the second to prosper.
Symphony D.
Deity
More like this ambitious operation is too cheap to do something like Mars Direct. You can interpret what that says about their budget yourself. I wonder what their contracts look like...
Nylan
Characters Welcome
The obvious solution is to get NASA the funding they need and stop meddling. Constellation was not a great program, honestly, but it's better than what we've got now.
Terrance888
Discord Reigns
Just a warning. Tomorrow is a scheduled "I won't be here at all" days. Please PM me stuff of importance asap. If it is really important tomorrow, e-mail me using my account e-mail, and put "NESing from [username]". Stuff stuff. Hopefully I'll get a lot of work done tomorrow.
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