While We Wait: Writer's Block & Other Lame Excuses

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LoL is actually way better designed mechanics-wise, but I hate the art direction myself. I find the Warcraft aesthetics way more engaging than outright cartooniness, which LoL embraces; while DotA is cartoony, it still has a larger pretense of "seriousness" in its art direction than LoL. And I recognize it is a shallow pretense with little to no substance, it's just my personal preference.

It saddens me a bit that LoL chose that specific artstyle. Otherwise I'd prefer it.
 
LoL is far, far more forgiving, I feel that the main difference is.
 
LoL has better graphics, better community, and has a better out of game experience (fan art, comics, cosplay)

Dota players get high off how their game is better due to articially created "difficulty" (read: trees, secret shop, courier, tower diving), and can never talk about anything involving league without mentioning that Dota is "harder"
 
I just read this article about the Austro-Hungarian Empire, I wonder if learned NESers would agree with its viewpoint?:

http://madhapsburgmonarchist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/was-austria-hungary-doomed.html
Meh.

For one thing, Austria-Hungary was going to collapse one way or another in 1917, when the Hungarians in their diet were going to make the abolition of the common army and the creation of an independent Hungarian foreign ministry the sine qua non for the Ausgleich negotiations. This would either have split Hungary off from Austria in every remaining sense, or it would have sparked a civil war, the end result of which would almost certainly have been a dissolution of the union (if the monarchy won, presumably it would be dissolved in favor of something federal or autocratic; if the Hungarians won, it'd all be over).

For another thing, the Austro-Hungarian military really was That Bad, and frankly the author's attempts to show otherwise are embarrassing. Yes, the Dual Monarchy had a military, and yes, it sometimes participated in victorious campaigns. But it was woefully undermanned, extremely poorly led (the author's transparent and futile efforts to rescue Conrad's image notwithstanding), indifferently equipped and supplied, and so on. Austria-Hungary's only quality troops and equipment were the 300,000 or so men in the regular army and their gear, and most of those were killed and the gear abandoned during the catastrophic routs in Galicia in 1914. After that point, the Dual Monarchy's military ceased to be fit for offensive operations.

Trialism was a farce - preserving a stupid, unworkable system with minor modifications that wouldn't actually fix anything and create even more of a bureaucratic headache. Federalism was just about as bad, being more politically sensible but less desirable to the various elements of the Habsburg polity and even more difficult to implement (much less implement in a way that would be generally satisfying to all parties). And the implementation of either would have required a catastrophic and destructive civil war, and frankly, if you're going to have a civil war, why not go whole hog and reimpose the autocracy of the 1850s?

To be fair, the author acknowledges some of these concerns. But his method of acknowledging them is to point out that they existed, and then promptly state that the situation wasn't that bad because of, uh, reasons. He claims that Austria-Hungary's military won "often over-looked victories" (what, exactly?). Then he states that Austria had "never been a militaristic country", which is itself a total lie, but even if it were true, presumably it would indicate the opposite of what he's trying to prove, namely, that the Dual Monarchy wasn't as decrepit and crappy as it's often described. At another point, he states that "few would deny" that Conrad's grand strategy was both workable and brilliant when in fact I can name several historians off the top of my head who would deny such a thing (viz. Strachan, Zuber, Showalter, and Herwig). Stuff like that.

Anyway. Those paragraphs were very obviously written by a partisan and an apologist (although, mind you, it's kind of nice to see a black-yellow loyalist on the Internet; you don't get them very often, at least in my experience). The general thrust of what he has to say - that Austria-Hungary was not completely helpless, worthless, backward, decrepit, and weak - is more or less sound. Sure. But then he starts taking that conclusion to weird places. He lacks a basic understanding of the political situation in the Dual Monarchy, he ignores its parlous finances, and he glosses over the worst parts of its military while exaggerating its power rather dramatically.

In my Eurasian War timeline, I went to some lengths to sketch out the Habsburg situation, and although I spent less time on it than I would have liked, it still should make for a reasonably good perspective and something of a corrective to this article. :)
 
LoL has better graphics, better community, and has a better out of game experience (fan art, comics, cosplay)

Dota players get high off how their game is better due to articially created "difficulty" (read: trees, secret shop, courier, tower diving), and can never talk about anything involving league without mentioning that Dota is "harder"

I've not found the LoL community to be much different than the Dota 2 community. I have played both, as my sister plays LoL. For both communities, I find plenty of bashing of the other game, with LoLers making statements generally in line with Nuke's, and Dota 2 players calling LoL bland, oversimplified, and derivative.

Regarding graphics, I'd say that the two games make different stylistic choices about their looks, with LoL going for a bright, cartoon-like look and Dota 2 going for slightly more realistic palette. I have a mild preference for Dota 2, mostly just because I am not crazy about the cel-shaded look of LoL. Still, I think both of them are roughly equivalent in terms of graphical quality.

Spoiler LoL :
League-of-Legends-Ashe-Hawkshot-4.jpg


Spoiler Dota 2 :
invoker_screen33_ghost_walki54NVe17OA.jpg


Regarding fan art, comics and cosplay, I'm really not really all that familiar with the things happening on that side of the fandom. I know of several artists on dA who do great Dota work, but I've never taken much time to check out their LoL equivalents.
 
Thats a super old screen shot of League.

The League of Legends community has a significant out of game presence; go to any convention and you can find hundreds upon hundreds of League of Legends cosplays, with a handful of 3-5 DOTA cosplayers. Go to tumblr and to dealers halls and you will find League drawings and memorabilia everywhere with almost nothing DOTA wise.

It honestly feels with alot of DOTA players they take a pride in being more "Difficult" than League, and most of the stuff I have found has just been stuff that's really annoying. I actually have grown to detest the DOTA community because of this, with noob being a huge offender.

In general though, what it really boils down to is "What do your friends play", and if they play DOTA, you're going to learn DOTA. If your friends play League, you're going to play League. If you have no friends and are bad at both of them, you're going to play DOTA.
 
Is it? That's how it looks on my old laptop, but then again, it's my old laptop. I just searched 'LoL screenshot' and 'Dota 2 screenshot' and picked something off the first page for each.

I suspect that the cosplay thing is probably related to the fact that LoL presently has a larger player base, and has been released for longer. I wonder if the gap will close over the coming year.

qoou is very good at being a bad representative of any group he belongs to, and I mean that in the most friendly way possible. ;)

But yes, it mostly boils down to 'what you play first', and what most of your friends play. But what brought on that last sentence, Nuke?
 
If you suck at both and have no friends, at the very least you can hide behind "At least a play a REAL GAME like DOTA instead of a sissy game like League". Observed in enough cases for me to classify it as a trope :p
 
I'm not sure what <nuke> is getting at. DOTA is hard too. That it's "forgiving" does not say much about game design. I'll get to that in a minute.

I've played LoL very recently and it still looks celshady and cartoonish. There are no important differences from the screen Iggy posted and the game today. I played it before DOTA and back then I also found the artstyle very uninteresting. That is the main draw for me in regards to these sorts of games. I don't very much like games that have an arcady feel ; I like to get immersed in a world and pretend I actually participate in something, and even if LoL's backstory is about world peace or some crap, its lore basically explain why the arcade-like sport exists. It's not as interesting as a cosmic fantasy planescrossing in the midst of a war, which DOTA is about. The artstyle additionally enhances the difference of feel between the two games. DOTA's artstyle is, to me personally, much more intriguing. I mean, DOTA at least has a pretense of seriousness. LoL much less. LoL has a bunch of charming teddy bear heroes, and lorewise you can legitimize their seriousness by adding "pixie" or "cursed child" to it, but it does not take away that they are arcady and silly. Or silly-er. DOTA is still silly too. It's just the lesser of two semievils to me. :p

But if I went about the game mechanics, I'd find LoL better. "Less forgiving" doesn't really cover the superior design of LoL's system. HoN has a tendency to, when designing a hero, give him access to both slow, stun and disable or whatever into each single spell the hero has, and then mash a lot of complex abilities together that very much promote buttonmashing, and it's very nukey. DOTA much less has this problem, hopefully not because they haven't started making new heroes yet. But DOTA's not very dependent on kinetic ability outside reaction time and hero positioning. LoL is very dependent on both reaction time, positioning and precise use of skills. What I experienced in LoL was that most heroes played somewhere between Disruptor and Ancient Apparition, and it's honestly much better than the DOTA mechanics - a system mind you that were made as such due to the restrictions of the WC3 engine! This means that I actually find LoL more skill-dependent. In addition to this, LoL has the snowball effect of fed heroes toned down a lot, the pace is slightly slower, damage is less, therefore buttonmashnukez are rarer and not as effecient. You really have to pace yourself much more effecient in LoL from what I've found, personally. "Less forgiving" is really about the great design choice of having the best play work out much more smoothly. There's much less snowballing and comeback is more of an option.

That said, I personally don't play neither DOTA or LoL to gain epic epeen killz and when it fails rage about Spirit Breaker's apparent OPness on the forums - things I find other players do a lot - I like to immerse myself into the world, and DOTA just feels and looks better in the area of art direction. And setting is what I personally prioritize, not the ability to get the awesomest highscores. Note that some players play DOTA out of scorephilia because it's easier ganking there, but then again, I don't play with them...
 
I have been told by friends who play LoL never to play LoL because the community is cancer. I am quoting here.
 
Nah, that's just Europe
 
I found the LoL community to be earthly bile, but it's supposed to have been improved since they implemented individual feedback mechanics.
 
LoL has better graphics, better community, and has a better out of game experience (fan art, comics, cosplay)

Dota players get high off how their game is better due to articially created "difficulty" (read: trees, secret shop, courier, tower diving), and can never talk about anything involving league without mentioning that Dota is "harder"

I have been told by friends who play LoL never to play LoL because the community is cancer. I am quoting here.

Eh, it depends really. I've played games with great people who are fun, competent and tolerant of my stupid mistakes sometimes (playing Thresh was one of those times). On the other hand though, there are a lot of "unfun" people in the game and in the community from what I've seen and it's no fun at all to be on the losing side of a game because the other team is just more cohesive and better all around while yours is struggling to hold the line and someone keeps complaining in team chat and then rage quits or does something else.

At least that is what I've seen. I usually play Blind Pick so I can't tell if that's all that the LoL community has to offer or what.
 
Real men play FA:Forever.
 
And the tribal elders still play Starcraft #1 :)

Meh.

For one thing, Austria-Hungary was going to collapse one way or another in 1917, when the Hungarians in their diet were going to make the abolition of the common army and the creation of an independent Hungarian foreign ministry the sine qua non for the Ausgleich negotiations. This would either have split Hungary off from Austria in every remaining sense, or it would have sparked a civil war, the end result of which would almost certainly have been a dissolution of the union (if the monarchy won, presumably it would be dissolved in favor of something federal or autocratic; if the Hungarians won, it'd all be over).

For another thing, the Austro-Hungarian military really was That Bad, and frankly the author's attempts to show otherwise are embarrassing. Yes, the Dual Monarchy had a military, and yes, it sometimes participated in victorious campaigns. But it was woefully undermanned, extremely poorly led (the author's transparent and futile efforts to rescue Conrad's image notwithstanding), indifferently equipped and supplied, and so on. Austria-Hungary's only quality troops and equipment were the 300,000 or so men in the regular army and their gear, and most of those were killed and the gear abandoned during the catastrophic routs in Galicia in 1914. After that point, the Dual Monarchy's military ceased to be fit for offensive operations.

Trialism was a farce - preserving a stupid, unworkable system with minor modifications that wouldn't actually fix anything and create even more of a bureaucratic headache. Federalism was just about as bad, being more politically sensible but less desirable to the various elements of the Habsburg polity and even more difficult to implement (much less implement in a way that would be generally satisfying to all parties). And the implementation of either would have required a catastrophic and destructive civil war, and frankly, if you're going to have a civil war, why not go whole hog and reimpose the autocracy of the 1850s?

To be fair, the author acknowledges some of these concerns. But his method of acknowledging them is to point out that they existed, and then promptly state that the situation wasn't that bad because of, uh, reasons. He claims that Austria-Hungary's military won "often over-looked victories" (what, exactly?). Then he states that Austria had "never been a militaristic country", which is itself a total lie, but even if it were true, presumably it would indicate the opposite of what he's trying to prove, namely, that the Dual Monarchy wasn't as decrepit and crappy as it's often described. At another point, he states that "few would deny" that Conrad's grand strategy was both workable and brilliant when in fact I can name several historians off the top of my head who would deny such a thing (viz. Strachan, Zuber, Showalter, and Herwig). Stuff like that.

Anyway. Those paragraphs were very obviously written by a partisan and an apologist (although, mind you, it's kind of nice to see a black-yellow loyalist on the Internet; you don't get them very often, at least in my experience). The general thrust of what he has to say - that Austria-Hungary was not completely helpless, worthless, backward, decrepit, and weak - is more or less sound. Sure. But then he starts taking that conclusion to weird places. He lacks a basic understanding of the political situation in the Dual Monarchy, he ignores its parlous finances, and he glosses over the worst parts of its military while exaggerating its power rather dramatically.

In my Eurasian War timeline, I went to some lengths to sketch out the Habsburg situation, and although I spent less time on it than I would have liked, it still should make for a reasonably good perspective and something of a corrective to this article. :)

Thankyou Dachs! I feel a bit more enlightened on the subject. I also started reading your Eurasian War timeline again :)

Interesting subject, the possibility of some kind of federal Greater Austria surviving as a big blob™ in Europe.
 
Alright manly men of NES forums, which one of these most appeal to you:

A) Hard SF NES set in Solar System with subluminal travel and colonized local planets. Nation states still exist, but so do powerful corporations and ideological factions. Would be placed chronologically in late 21st, mid 22nd or early 23rd century so I would have to spend a lot of time building concepts, terraforming levels and mapping 'likely-ish' futures. May involve a space race to settle an exoplanet. Lots of possibilities with this one.

B) Soft SF NES in mid to late 21st century. Giant Death Robots and silliness likely. Think INES/GoobNES and the like.

C) Completely alien world but embittered human factions (due to intership conflicts that will be fleshed out together) on a early-mid 21st century tech level. They settled via generational-sleeper ships, but technology of the rest of humanity has vastly surpassed them by time they got to their destination. Now they are a relic of humanity's past that nobody has time/resources, will/cohesion to fix but still a fine point for the occasional trade ship to visit. This is where some randomness can occur, high-tech may be procured at great expense, enemies smitten, biological catastrophes, forced armistices etc. Think Alpha Centauri with a twist.
 
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