White House readies plan for $12 bn emergency aid to farmers caught in Trump’s escalating trade wars

[Berzerker]

It seems to me that this is unconstitutional, because tariffs (even if excused as being intended for national security) are revenue measures which must originate in bills passed first in the House of Representatives. The Senate could strike such measures down, but cannot constitutionally even propose taxes muhc less give that power to someone else.

Trump should be impeached or censured or whatever Congress does to express their disgust for abusing the power Congress gave him. But I suppose he'd argue our economic well being is a matter of national security and bad trade deals are a threat.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Here's the thing that I haven't seen mentioned. Trump's tariffs are hurting lots of industries. He won't be able to pay them all off, and the ones that don't get paid off will feel cheated relative to the ones that have been.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Trump should be impeached or censured or whatever Congress does to express their disgust for abusing the power Congress gave him. But I suppose he'd argue our economic well being is a matter of national security and bad trade deals are a threat.

Yeah but that like Fixing Terrorism by launching botched Military adventures that flush blood and treasure into a Black Hole. When you could have just used a Seal team instead

 

[FriendlyFire]

US cars, US coal about to get it good and hard next. Just as Gyna has brought down its tariffs on ALL imported cars just in time to impose retalitory tariffs on US cars
MAGA !

China said Wednesday that it would impose tariffs on an additional $16 billion in U.S. autos and energy products, retaliating for the Trump administration’s latest import levies on an equivalent value of Chinese good
Trump administration efforts to force China into concessions also have been complicated by the falling yuan, which has lost more than 8 percent of its value against the dollar since April. By making Chinese products less expensive for American buyers, the weaker yuan partially counteracts the effects of Trump’s trade measures.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.fc8f103eeb2d

The retaliatory duties issued by China will tack a 25 percent tariff on several U.S. coal products, including thermal coal, coking coal and coke

China confirmed that it will impose 25 percent tariffs on an additional $16 billion worth of imports from the U.S. from Aug. 23, matching an earlier move from Washington in another ratchet higher for the trade war between the two nations.
The revised Chinese list released today added hundreds of new items to be hit with tariffs, and now covers items as diverse as coal, medical instruments, waste products, cars and buses. The tariffs will come into effect simultaneously with the U.S. ones, at 12:01 p.m. in Beijing, according to the statements.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...tch-u-s-tariffs-on-16b-of-imports-from-aug-23

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Who told this idiot that a trade war was winnable without actually going to war and forcing capitulation?

 

[innonimatu]

They can. And politically all he needs is the perception that China has backed down and made concessions. Which the chinese are likely go do because it's still too soon for them to go for full-on confrontation. A warning: do not make a big deal of the "trade war", unless you want to help Trump politically when he gets to declare victory on it...

 

[FriendlyFire]

China already making concessions, with removing tariffs, no longer requiring companies to be majority Chinese owned and promise to increased US imports. Internally Chinese are discussing if they themselves have come out to early and aggressively to challenge the US in Asia as a mistake. Then there is Chinese history still fresh about the injustices at being colonized and unfair trade by the West

Trump is going to have to go over $170 Bil in Tarrifs before this trade war hurts China more then the US. At which point both countries will be really hurting

Then Trump has no idea what he wants out of the trade war, like hes demands for 1:1 trade ratio or China submitting to US IP laws, or China to stop subsidizing it steel industry and other wild demands.

Trump administration announces $22b in fresh tariffs on China

New York: The Trump administration has deepened its trade war with China by announcing a new round of tariffs worth $US16 billion ($22 billion), a move the Chinese government has warned will trigger another round of retaliatory tariffs on US exports.
The tranche of 25 per cent tariffs - which covers 279 products including electronic parts, plastics, chemicals, batteries, tractors and railway cars - follows $US34 billion worth of tariffs announced by the US government in July.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...n-fresh-tariffs-on-china-20180808-p4zw50.html

 

[Lexicus]

OK I got it. I'd agree with your position on the Republicans, and I'd actually go as far as to say that probably more Democrats than Republicans are ideologically committed to deficit reduction based on a belief that its "the right thing to do", but I'm sticking to leaning towards most of Congress being in the more cynical camp.

More on this:
https://www.axios.com/2018-midterm-...nda-76866210-1cf5-40f7-8422-bb29949437ae.html

• And Pelosi, despite opposition from some progressives, is committed to reviving the "pay-go" (or pay as you go) rule she had during her previous run as speaker, requiring that new spending be paid for by budget cuts or revenue offsets.

If Pelosi does this, she should be removed as Speaker. This would be one of the most politically disastrous and economically illiterate moves from the Democrats in I don't know how long...

 

[Broken_Erika]

If Pelosi does this, she should be removed as Speaker. This would be one of the most politically disastrous and economically illiterate moves from the Democrats in I don't know how long...

I wouldn't be surprised if the Democrats get behind her on this and enshrine it as the central tenant of their new platform in an attempt to look "Fiscally Responsible"

 

[rah]

Always snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[FriendlyFire]

China just released a detailed plan for replacing US Soy with Agricultural investments in Russia, Ukraine and South America, in short term they are switching to palm oil to replace soy
Its also interesting that Chinese have exempted all US Oil imports because they made the calculation that it would hurt the Chinese economy more then the US

Some of the larger Chinese companies are moving just across the border to Vietnam as a means of bypassing US Tariffs.

For others smaller manufacturers sharing the burden of 20% tariffs is too much, Many of the Chinese companies have come to the conclusion that operating at 0 profit in order to maintain US sales is pointless and have simply ceased all US exports.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Wow it's really great we have taken our strong, post-recession economic advantage and thrown it away while simultaneously sowing the seeds of a new global trade paradigm that cuts us out.

FFS he's got to go before the damage is inrecoverable

 

[innonimatu]

China just released a detailed plan for replacing US Soy with Agricultural investments in Russia, Ukraine and South America, in short term they are switching to palm oil to replace soy
Its also interesting that Chinese have exempted all US Oil imports because they made the calculation that it would hurt the Chinese economy more then the US

Some of the larger Chinese companies are moving just across the border to Vietnam as a means of bypassing US Tariffs.

For others smaller manufacturers sharing the burden of 20% tariffs is too much, Many of the Chinese companies have come to the conclusion that operating at 0 profit in order to maintain US sales is pointless and have simply ceased all US exports.

Food is (in the larger scale) fungible. If the chinese shift their demand to South America or other areas of Asia, they will displace other buyers there and turn them to US supplies. Chinese agricultural investments in those areas will go the same way as other international agricultural investments go: nowhere. The chinese do enjoy wasting money in megalomaniac projects. Much as the US does in fracking. But at least the US creates and pends its debt within the country. The chinese, spending it outside, will quickly lose controls of whatever they pay for. They are hurting in this trade war.

Wow it's really great we have taken our strong, post-recession economic advantage and thrown it away while simultaneously sowing the seeds of a new global trade paradigm that cuts us out.

I'd call it pre-recession by now... it's going along just like the previous one, people never learn. Or the ones who decide do, and like what they did before.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yup I am waiting for the student loan but ble to burst and the housing market to turn over again.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Food is (in the larger scale) fungible. If the chinese shift their demand to South America or other areas of Asia, they will displace other buyers there and turn them to US supplies. Chinese agricultural investments in those areas will go the same way as other international agricultural investments go: nowhere. The chinese do enjoy wasting money in megalomaniac projects. Much as the US does in fracking. But at least the US creates and pends its debt within the country. The chinese, spending it outside, will quickly lose controls of whatever they pay for. They are hurting in this trade war.
I'd call it pre-recession by now... it's going along just like the previous one, people never learn. Or the ones who decide do, and like what they did before.

Thats is what the US expects to happen, soy will goto south America first to replace supplies and then to be processed into meal before being export to China.
China can easy ramp up production in neighbouring very poor Russia just across the border all of this is being subsidied by the Chinese government, I dont think China can buy enough palm oil and other subsitutes to totally make up for us soy. China is going to opt to reduce its own pork industry instead.

The US on the other hand are spending their wealth on tax cuts, while slashing education, infrastructure and reasearch.
Then again I read Chinas investments are less about economic projects and more about tieing governments to China via Debt. some of the investments were the same ones rejected by the EU as fiscally irresponsible, the worse are venezuala though these are oil futures

 

[innonimatu]

The US keeps subsidizing education, they are just doing it though loan guarantees. Ultimately the state will have to pay.

This is bad because it reduces a couple of generations to modern indentured servants until the debt blows and the model has to change. Unfortunately people in debt are easily convinced that they are to blame for their predicament and must submit to the will of the lenders. In the meanwhile those lenders not only get rich on the payments, they get powerful. It distorts the whole politics of the country.
But as far as education itself is concerned, the US is spending lavishly and manages to have the best facilities and attract some of the best researchers from abroad. They have not actually been slashing education, unless you mean basic education tothe poorer communities. And they are not slashing research, at least the state is not; many corporation have been.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Student loans + private educational business + no regulations is a bad combination. I said before that the US has created a few top/elite amazing universities as opposed to Chinese whom are churning out x10 the number of engineers, scientist and programmers. The US also sell university places to foreign students thereby subsidizing all other students education. The problem is the mass of unregulated, for profit like Trump university and the crumbling public education system which is being slashed in states running tax cuts.

Chinese government is heavily subsiding key industries that it wants to build monopoly in. these are all the top tier electronics, energy and emerging technology. Trump seems to be playing a zero sum game of trying to knock down China in an attempt to halt this research instead of the US simply entering into a race for future industries by government investments. Trump is going to have to wage trade wars with nearly all the first world countries with this strategy as Asian and the EU are also racing to develop the same tech.

Then there is the Chinese memory of opium free trade that chinese blame for the destruction of the country that will make backing down in this trade war unlikely. I'd imagine a recession will probably solve the US trade deficit without any deal being reached

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Trump doesn't know jack **** about research in any shape, form or nationality. He doesn't know much more about international trade. This trade war was meant to boost his poll numbers and that's it. He thinks he's helping the economy and coincidental strong growth has covered up a lot of the fundamental challenges we're facing.

 

[Broken_Erika]

The US doesn't need Imports of any kind what-so-ever! Because it's America! Foreign Trade is for Commies! It's MAGA Time! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!