I think the difference lies in that Civ allows for people to create mods, unless I'm missing your point?
Well, legally speaking it's not their mods, it's the property of Firaxis. Read the license agreemen.
Why can't we discuss matters relating to piracy?
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Well, legally speaking it's not their mods, it's the property of Firaxis. Read the license agreemen.
This one time I think we are in a misunderstanding. I am not advocating discussion of where to get cracks or how to install them. I am advocating discussion of how to modify internal code. Nobody on CivFanatics is going to to talk about that if they want to pirate the game, that's done in internal forums or you simply download the crack from a warez site.
The things I am talking about is adding custom features and fanbased content not easily addable through the editor.
@Padme
I do own my copy of a game to, don't I?
It is ridicilous that you are of the opinion that It is illegal for me to do as I please with my copy as long as I am not claiming ownership of the copyright in any way, the corporations have lost more court cases than they have won in that regard.
Also there is no law forbidding me to edit my book and for example censore words I find nasty and then give it to my child.
I also find it utterly insane that you would stand by a theoretical law in which spilling ink (modifying a copy of a book you own) and actually forbid discussion on how to spill ink on it. Where's your sense of civic duty damnit? You have a large forum and a large responsibility to more than your wallet!
Indeed and here we have Padme arguing that Fixaris would be angry if their span of property increased free of charge.
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Do you mean "wallet" as in being named as the defendant in a copyright suit?
Right, and if users were to try to sell their mods without consent, that would be illegal.
That's still the same thing. You are discussing how to do something illegal (which in itself may not be illegal) with the intent of doing it (which is illegal)...so therefore, why should the forum allow the discussion of it if they know that illegal activity is going to follow?
She (right?-thanks ainwood) would not be risking that as he admits her self that there is nothing wrong (illegal) in the discussion of these things. Heck, I belive that if he emailed Fixaris and asked if they were OK with people modifying Alpha Centauri code for non-pirate purpouses that they probably wouldn't be angry at all. Maybe even glad someone still takes alot of interest in that old masterpiece.
Either way he would not be liable in any way. The biggest risk he would face is a weakened relationship with 2Kgames (the publishers).
I know but various corporations have had trouble enforcing their EULAs as they deeply infringe on consumer rights, rights of property, the lack of formal contract before the purchase and so forth.
They are pushing into deep stuff with this liscensing crap and as of now various laws from the past are still holding strong in many cases. Thank god.
Thanks for clarifying.
If you are not intelligent enough to participate in an ongoing discussion perhaps it is not the place for you to join the discussion?
I do not belive I can clarify it any further.
CFC is not the appropriate platform for displaying passive-aggressive dissatisfaction with the EULA from the company which is the reason CFC exists.
My claims are as follows:
1) Various improvements in the games can be made and various good programmers have been interested in holding discussions about these possible improvements.
2) Fixaris has not voices opposition against this to my knowledge. Have they even been contacted? I know from experience that when Interplay was contacted about Fallout 2 they didn't mind it and simply said "you're in the gray zone, step carefully".
3) It is not illegal to discuss it thus taking a stand here would be an important social mark that Public Relations are not everything. Especially with 2K's (and not Fixaris) introduction of ever more comprehensive methods of control over their paying customers.
Good or bad points?
If the improvements being made are outside of what is agreed to in the EULA, then the game company shouldn't have to voice opposition, the opposition is already voiced in the license-agreement. If you personally contacted 2K and Firaxis and they said okay, this and this would be acceptable, then I think you would have a lot more ground to stand on.
It's not completely about public relations, it's also about legal relations.
Again, the forum has no obligation to allow users (nor should they) to discuss how to do things that are against the EULA when they can reasonably assume that such discussions will lead to the act being done.Overall your point rests on your personal opinion that the forum should not allow for legal discussions of and about illegal acts.
In that point you weave in assertions that are false.
It is not about legal relations, it is about pubic relations as we've just established that the discussions under not circumstances are illegal and that even the acts barely qualify as such.
As such you must agree that the positive effects of such discussions outweigh the negative ones.
Again mentioned; The possibility for vast improvements in especially Civ 3 and Alpha Centauri, a clear statement from the administration of this forum that they can pull their own side of the rope if 2KGames pulls their side and overall an increased portfolio for Fixaris as everything we make is owned by them legally.
Indeed contacting them would be the first step forward but regardless of the answer I see none but small public relations effects of a new policy on this. Especially if in context with that piracy is still loathed and forbidden.
In that point you weave in assertions that are false.
It is not about legal relations, it is about pubic relations as we've just established that the discussions under not circumstances are illegal and that even the acts barely qualify as such.
As such you must agree that the positive effects of such discussions outweigh the negative ones.
Again mentioned; The possibility for vast improvements in especially Civ 3 and Alpha Centauri, a clear statement from the administration of this forum that they can pull their own side of the rope if 2KGames pulls their side and overall an increased portfolio for Fixaris as everything we make is owned by them legally.
Indeed contacting them would be the first step forward but regardless of the answer I see none but small public relations effects of a new policy on this. Especially if in context with that piracy is still loathed and forbidden.
Have you tried to raise this discussion in the Firaxis forums? Let us know how that goes, please.
Nope, only the discussion of how to do acts that are illegal when it is reasonably assumed that after the discussion, one will do those acts - as I've said a million times.
So if I tell someone the combination to a locked safe, and they rob it, I'm not in any way held culpable? Basically meaning, that it is not wise to tell people how to do things when you think they may actually do it, if said thing is against the law.
Huh? So you admit that contacting them would be a step forward but refuse to do so?
Wise in what way?
I've already mentioned the positive effects it can have.
The negative effects it can have is that an EULA which was established to stop piracy and possibly doesn't have alot of legal ground to begin with is breached in a way that does not damage the company?
Again I claim that the positive effects, both the principle stand and the improvement of the games are far sweeter than the negligeble negative effects.
You've yet to refute this point.
And I warn you to put words in my mouth. I've never reported anyone but this is the second time you are doing this. I just might, rather insult me a thoulsandfold.
I never said I wouldn't (and definetly not that I am refusing) and if Padma thinks its a good idea I even might, even though I think someone of his stature would be more qualified to do so. Regardless of their response though I belive that the positive effects outweigh the negative ones and that it is NOT a legal issue.
I've already mentioned the positive effects it can have.
The negative effects it can have is that an EULA which was established to stop piracy and possibly doesn't have alot of legal ground to begin with is breached in a way that does not damage the company?
Again I claim that the positive effects, both the principle stand and the improvement of the games are far sweeter than the negligeble negative effects.
You've yet to refute this point.
And I warn you to put words in my mouth. I've never reported anyone but this is the second time you are doing this. I just might, rather insult me a thoulsandfold.
I never said I wouldn't (and definetly not that I am refusing) and if Padma thinks its a good idea I even might, even though I think someone of his stature would be more qualified to do so. Regardless of their response though I belive that the positive effects outweigh the negative ones and that it is NOT a legal issue.
Yeah cause you were the Thread Starter...right?
Anyway I'm sure he meant advocating as in advocating a stance.
Simply saying "I like piracy and I like smoking pot and I think everyone should smoke pot and the laws on pot and piracy should be changed" is alright.
Different to say:
Topics concerning how to smoke pot that I think I've seen which makes their opposition against similiar things concerning code modification look a bit stupid. But don't quote me on this one.
Anyway I'm sure he meant advocating as in advocating a stance.
Simply saying "I like piracy and I like smoking pot and I think everyone should smoke pot and the laws on pot and piracy should be changed" is alright.
Different to say:
Topics concerning how to smoke pot that I think I've seen which makes their opposition against similiar things concerning code modification look a bit stupid. But don't quote me on this one.
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