1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Why do Marxists have a superior grasp on history?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hygro, Feb 22, 2012.

?

Why do Marxists understand history better? Pick just one (sorry!)

  1. To justify Marxism, you have to justify historical particulars, leading to understand history

    65.0%
  2. Having a good grasp of history leads to an understanding of why Marxism is good

    10.0%
  3. Marx, as a Hegelian historian teaches history effectively, so those who study him learn history well

    10.0%
  4. Marx provided linguistic categories for history, leading to historians trapped into Marxist thinking

    2.5%
  5. I am a Marxist who disagrees with the poll's premise, or has another answer..

    12.5%
  1. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    16,934
    Location:
    Tir ná Lia
    Nah, he's probably just implying that the initials 'TF' could not be used to refer to anyone else, as he is wont to believe about the meaning of signs.
     
  2. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,102
    Location:
    In orbit
    Presumptions, presumptions...
     
  3. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,534
    Location:
    Osaka
    Mmm someone is presumptuous :D
     
  4. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    23,541
    Location:
    California
    That's utter nonsense. History shows us if you lack a form of economics that can handle crisis, you risk extreme politics that completely usurp freedom. I.E. if you sputter along in a depression and you aren't making any progress, you risk fascism/sovietism. Whereas neoclassical economists will say "depressions are fine, we'll get back on track in the long run" the common people start getting ready to engage in organized violence in hopes to set up a state with a strong interventionist government and therefore command economy. Which is of course a much bigger danger to freedom than deficit spending to stimulate an economy.

    Having a leaning in which you think government should stay out of business as much as possible, except to establish contract law, some obvious "don't poison us" regulations, handle externalities, and levy taxes, and that government should stay out of our personal lives, you have libertarian sympathy. Most Americans prefer far greater government intervention in business than the Berkeley economics faculty.

    edit: notwithstanding that macro economics as a discipline is a pretty good measurement tool for everything except crisis, ironically, and in understanding it, doesn't preclude a libertarian bent. Unless your definition of a libertarian is someone who is simply wrong.
     
  5. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,588
    Location:
    Moscow
    I'm kind of annoyed (but completely unsurprised) that my only post on the central matter of the thread has drawn basically zero interest.
    If you were going to define history as "history according to Marxian analysis", you might have a point, but it wouldn't really describe anything.
    Uh, what about the history department?
     
  6. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    32,729
    Location:
    Scotland
    I just figured that, because it's pretty much indisputable, nobody bothered disputing it. :dunno:
     
  7. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,588
    Location:
    Moscow
    But a few people have disputed it, at least implicitly.
     
  8. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,102
    Location:
    In orbit
    Then, by all means, crush them just as implicitly.

    Glad you got that one. ;)
     
  9. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    23,541
    Location:
    California
    No idea. I took one history course in the department. Taught be Leon Litwack. A leftist, but I don't know if he was a Marxist.
     
  10. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    3,715
    Maybe they're intrinsically crushed.
     
  11. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,102
    Location:
    In orbit
    Ah, okay, nevermind then. :D
     
  12. Ergo Sum

    Ergo Sum Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Messages:
    332
    Location:
    The Mistake on the Lake
    I've actually found my local library's collection of history to be pretty unimpressive. Pretty bare-bones surveys of history. I wouldn't be surprised if much of suburbia, or even big urban libraries, are the same way.

    P.s. after reading all the poll options multiple times I still can't make heads or tails of them.
     
  13. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    3,715
    I thought it was common for libraries to be part of inter-library lending networks.
     
  14. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,588
    Location:
    Moscow
    They do specifically exclude a very large group of people from voting on them at all - namely, the group that is not ideologically Marxist and disagrees that Marxists have a superior grasp on history. But I believe that was by design.
     
  15. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    13,288
    Seeing history as a series of conflicts probably helps. Though it seems obvious there are many people who'd like to see history as a search for stability which is often attained and then unfortunately destroyed. Marxists may hope for some form of future stability, but looking back they seek nothing of that. Even where there is stability there is still conflict, and stability only remains for some time through superior force.
     
  16. Ayatollah So

    Ayatollah So the spoof'll set you free

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,389
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    That's most of it, I guess, but the way I would put it is:

    This. Imagine that a religious sect - the Reformed Adventist Redeemed Baptists - say that you must eat bacon, but only from certain kinds of pigs. Well, the RARB's would quickly become more knowledgeable on average, on pigs and bacon, than your average Joe. Of course, among expert veterinarians, there might not be any significant difference in pig-knowledge between religions.

    I never thought of that, but, duh. It's not just that Marxists have mostly taken a step forward. Most of the rest have taken a step backward.
     
  17. jtb1127

    jtb1127 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,498
    Location:
    Arlington, Virginia
    I had the same problem.
     
  18. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    23,541
    Location:
    California
    well in all fairness, Dachs, it was to discourage folk like jtb1127 from voting the downtown option ;)
     
  19. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,588
    Location:
    Moscow
    Like I said: by design.
     
  20. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton One. And many.

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    10,368
    Gender:
    Male
    I'd say either, seeing history as a series of conflicts or as a seek for stability, makes you a crappy historian.
     

Share This Page