Why enjoying your girlfriend's orgasm is (not) sexist

[Ryika]

This is probably not really that much of a relevant issue for anybody, but I would still like to discuss this article from the Cosmopolitan, and the research they're citing. A very serious article indeed, as you can see by the super mario gif that makes up for literally half of the article. But joking aside, it's still an interesting topic to me.

The TL : DR:
Some study by a Women's Studies (Student?) found that men derive pleasure from making their female sex-mates have an orgasm. Who would have guessed. The interesting thing is that the researchers then conclude that this is a bad thing, because it makes the female orgasm be all about men:

"Despite increasing focus on women's orgasms, research indicated that the increased attention to women's orgasms may also serve men's sexuality, complicating conceptualizations of women's orgasms as women-centric," researchers wrote.

The Cosmopolitan goes even further, and calls it sexist that men feel masculine when they've helped make their partner orgasm:

Let's be clear — there's nothing wrong with feeling good about making your partner feel good (in this case, orgasming). It's nice to bring pleasure to your partner! But the researchers point out a sexist flaw in the masculinity boost thing.

So... to me it seems like the conclusions these researchers are arriving at are seriously warped by some ideological nonsense. At the core of their interpretations seems to be the idea female orgasm is this magical thing that is about "women's liberation", and needs to be "conceptualized as women-centric", but quite honestly, I think that's pseudo-intellectual nonsense that doesn't really translate into anything, and just not how things work in real life.

It is true for anything in life that, if we're part of what has significantly helped making another person "achieve" something, we too get a happiness boost out of it. Your daughter got good grades after you practiced with her the days before? You feel good about her, and yourself, too. The soccer team you're coaching has won a game? You feel rewarded, and will think you've done a good job. That doesn't actually mean that you're doing these things "for yourself", and not "for the team". It's always a mixture of both.

What's also interesting is that the exact same arguments that the article makes about the female orgasm could be made about these examples as well. Even with the negative consequences that are described in the article - "If the coach derives pleasure and pride from seeing his team perform well, then coaching a team is not about helping young boys enjoy a hobby, it's about making the coach feel good and about re-affirming his ability as a teacher. The result of that is that these young boys may feel like they have to perform well, in order to make their coach happy." And yeah, there's some truth to it, that danger most certainly exists, but that doesn't mean that it's a "bad" thing that people enjoy coaching teams. It just means that people should be aware of that danger, and the solution is, as so often, to talk with each other.

But that's just my take on the issue. I would like to see whether people agree, disagree, think I've missed something... etc.

 

[emzie]

If it wasn't sometimes undesirable, women wouldn't have to fake orgasams to get guys off them.

 

[Ryika]

This doesn't seem to be quite on topic? But I'll run with it I guess. Does "Darling, please stop, I'm not enjoying this." not work, or why do they end up having to fake orgasms?

 

[emzie]

This doesn't seem to be quite on topic? But I'll run with it I guess. Does "Darling, please stop, I'm not enjoying this." not work, or why do they end up having to fake orgasms?

In a healthy relationship with good communication, that works and enjoying your partner's orgasams is fine and not at all sexist. Not all relationships meet those criteria. Think of a one night stand with a guy who thinks he's God's gift to women. Nevermind that cumming isn't always the goal of sex or even possible. Some men don't get that orgasams work differently for women and just keep going because that works for them.

 

[Lord of Elves]

It's White Feminism(tm).

 

[civver_764]

It's stories like this that make me think feminists are just anti-men and anti-sex. Women can't be happy unless they're the only ones enjoying sex??

It's kind of like how merely complimenting a girl's appearance can be considered "sexual harassment". It's not enough for them to have equal rights, they need to make sure men know their place.

 

[Ryika]

In a healthy relationship with good communication, that works and enjoying your partner's orgasams is fine and not at all sexist. Not all relationships meet those criteria. Think of a one night stand with a guy who thinks he's God's gift to women. Nevermind that cumming isn't always the goal of sex or even possible. Some men don't get that orgasams work differently for women and just keep going because that works for them.

That sounds more like the problem is that the man doesn't know how to pleasure the woman, and doesn't pay attention (and to a lesser extend also that the woman doesn't communicate that properly), not so much that the idea that men deriving pleasure from helping a woman achieve orgasm is bad, or sexist to me.

 

[Lord of Elves]

It's stories like this that make me think feminists are just anti-men and anti-sex. Women can't be happy unless they're the only ones enjoying sex??

It's kind of like how merely complimenting a girl's appearance can be considered "sexual harassment".

Again, it's White Feminism(tm). When you can't engage with the institutions and attitudes that actually harm and create systemic injustice for women, like white supremacy and international capitalism and militarism and all that good [CENSORED] that upholds patriarchy, all you've got left is this absurd crap, where you're arguing I guess that men should stoically refuse to acknowledge their partners' orgasms.

But by all means, continue to listen to the least respected and most childish part of global feminist movements, and try to argue as though it's representative of all feminists and all feminism.

 

[Farm Boy]

Think of a one night stand with a guy who thinks he's God's gift to women.

Well, no wonder the act is now an example of self-gratification. Her orgasm was never going to be the principally objectifying bit, here.

 

[Lexicus]

"For instance, heterosexual women have stated that, while they enjoy orgasms, their desire to experience orgasm mainly rests on a concern for their male partner’s feelings and perceptions as a good lover (Lavie & Willig, 2005Lavie, M., & Willig, C. (2005). "

It's funny because I feel the exact same way about my orgasms.

If you actually read the study I think it will become clear that a lot of people in this thread are taking the findings way too far. I don't see anything that's too controversial or radical. Nor do I see anything in the study that would lead to this preposterous conclusion:

Women can't be happy unless they're the only ones enjoying sex??

 

[Gori the Grey]

Does this now mean women are well advised to fake not having an orgasm?

I'll cheat that bastard of his masculinist pride in thinking he's giving me pleasure!

 

[Farm Boy]

Not entirely work appropriate, but you made me think of it, Gori, so here it is:

Spoiler :

 

[Narz]

Of course getting women off feeds my ego, that's at least half the reason I've gotten good at it. I enjoy the fact that I can give pleasure and I wouldn't want my partner to only gave me a pleasure for my sake without enjoying it herself, that's creepy.

Dumbass author of this article doesn't deserve any orgasms in my opinion (or for anyone to read her nonsense).

Imagine a man complaining about how a woman giving him head enjoyed it too much, both men and women would shun him forever. Literally lol worthy

 

[Narz]

If it wasn't sometimes undesirable, women wouldn't have to fake orgasams to get guys off them.

If you're not sexually attracted enough to someone why would you want them on you in the first place? Faking orgasms is super pathetic, just find a better man or teach the guy.

 

[warpus]

It's Cosmopolitan, they write articles about 16875 ways to please your man, where there's only 5. It's a garbage publication designed to sell advertising and push unnecessary products on women by pushing unrealistic body image expectations on them.

Sure, they're citing some study or other, but has it been peer reviewed? Have the results been duplicated by other researchers? Anyone's grandmother can do a study.

Might as well quote an ISIS newsletter in a discussion about morality tbh.

People get sexually aroused when they are able to sexually arouse another human being. Duh. Cheese tastes like cheese. Eureka

 

[Mouthwash]

When you can't engage with the institutions and attitudes that actually harm and create systemic injustice for women, like white supremacy and international capitalism and militarism and all that good [CENSORED] that upholds patriarchy, all you've got left is this absurd crap

Well, nothing deliciously ironic in this post. Moving on!

 

[Senethro]

If you're not sexually attracted enough to someone why would you want them on you in the first place? Faking orgasms is super pathetic, just find a better man or teach the guy.

Have you seen how hard it is to teach a man anything?

 

[El_Machinae]

If it wasn't sometimes undesirable, women wouldn't have to fake orgasams to get guys off them.

People need to realize that this point is much deeper than their first impression of the article. There's a pretty wide valley between this point and a lot of our first thoughts

 

[Bootstoots]

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