Why is this ModMod Not in C2C Already?

pepper2000 said:
OK, the new eras are added. No new techs have been added/moved to the new eras yet.



Thanks. I've started looking but don't fully understand it yet.

I would ask if all of us could take a look over and see if there are any issues. Combat classes are one thing that still needs to be addressed, and I'm sure there are others. I will wait for a while before populating the new eras with techs.
Click to expand...

Do you have Date ranges for these New Eras? I will need that kind of Info from you. Plus I will need the Number of techs you put in each one. This is vital info for me.
Example: Modern, which you changed the Name on, had a target date range of 1920 to 2020AD (it also had 92 techs previously). Transhuman had date range of 2020 to 3000AD with 190 techs, and Galactic was 3000 to 5000AD with 54 tech. Obviously TH and Galactic will have some big changes for me to work out after this info is provided.

Once you can give me date ranges and Number of tech per new Era then I can reset the Game Speed iTurnIncrements for all these new eras from the old replaced Eras. Each Game Speed I will have to adjust to accommodate these changes. Also will need to look at what has been done to the EraInfos.xml to make modifier adjustments to match the adjustments made in Game Speeds.

EDIT: I see you have not done anything to this File: 3. Clean up the references to the ERA's in CIV4LeaderHeadInfos -->
 
Last edited:
I've made some notes on the shared document. I can't make them stand out very well because I can't do anything but add a note to a field which just shows a little yellow tick in the upper right of the field once the note is added. The notes are in the topmost empty fields just under the tech tree itself.

The first thing I'm looking at is getting the techs aligned into their correct x grid placements, which is also of critical importance to answering Joseph's questions above.

It's unfortunate that we don't show the techs according to Pepper's tree adjustments... those need to get into that planning document asap!
 
JosEPh_II said:
Do you have Date ranges for these New Eras? I will need that kind of Info from you. Plus I will need the Number of techs you put in each one. This is vital info for me.
Click to expand...

It's still in flux, but my approximate era lengths and dates are as follows. I am changing the year ranges a bit from what I've said elsewhere so it will be more consistent with what we already have.
Atomic: 1920-1990, 73 techs. Note that if this era really starts around 1920, then some of the late Industrial techs should be in the Atomic Era. These figures assume Atomic begins at x74.
Information: 1990-2050, 83 techs.
Nanotech: 2050-2200, 81 techs.
Transhuman: 2200-3500, 74 techs.
Galactic: 3500 - AD 5000, 63 techs.
Cosmic: AD 5000 to AD 100 million, 50 techs. I don't think a year of 100 million is reasonable for gameplay, but I do include techs such as "Cultural Longevity" and keep open the possibility of slower-than-light intergalactic travel. Do whatever seems reasonable here.
Transcendent: 51 techs. Since this era incorporates widespread time travel and interdimensional travel, time as we know it no longer makes sense.

JosEPh_II said:
EDIT: I see you have not done anything to this File: 3. Clean up the references to the ERA's in CIV4LeaderHeadInfos -->
Click to expand...

Good catch. That file looks too big to deal with by hand, so I'll try to fix it with a script. I'm not very comfortable yet working with XML in python, but I think I can do it.
 
pepper2000 said:
It's still in flux, but my approximate era lengths and dates are as follows. I am changing the year ranges a bit from what I've said elsewhere so it will be more consistent with what we already have.
Atomic: 1920-1990, 73 techs. Note that if this era really starts around 1920, then some of the late Industrial techs should be in the Atomic Era. These figures assume Atomic begins at x74.
Information: 1990-2050, 83 techs.
Nanotech: 2050-2200, 81 techs.
Transhuman: 2200-3500, 74 techs.
Galactic: 3500 - AD 5000, 63 techs.
Cosmic: AD 5000 to AD 100 million, 50 techs. I don't think a year of 100 million is reasonable for gameplay, but I do include techs such as "Cultural Longevity" and keep open the possibility of slower-than-light intergalactic travel. Do whatever seems reasonable here.
Transcendent: 51 techs. Since this era incorporates widespread time travel and interdimensional travel, time as we know it no longer makes sense.



Good catch. That file looks too big to deal with by hand, so I'll try to fix it with a script. I'm not very comfortable yet working with XML in python, but I think I can do it.
Click to expand...

The last 2 Eras I'll have to lump together as I will have to assign a time frame in years for the iTurnIncrements. Or I can still keep them separate but Cosmic will have a 2000-5000 year range ( 5000 to 7000/10,000AD) and transcendent something similar (10,000AD to 15,000AD). We can role play that time is irrelevant for Transcendent but the game mechanics works off the iTurnIncrements.

And as you have left Modern Era in the xml there may be circumstances were when a modder goes to look for Atomic they will only find Modern Era. We've had this before and when the clean up was done it caused Save game breaking changes just because of Naming. I really think from the files that Modern should've stayed named Modern but with a correspondingly shortened timeframe and number of techs. So many interconnected files. :p
 
JosEPh_II said:
The last 2 Eras I'll have to lump together as I will have to assign a time frame in years for the iTurnIncrements. Or I can still keep them separate but Cosmic will have a 2000-5000 year range ( 5000 to 7000/10,000AD) and transcendent something similar (10,000AD to 15,000AD). We can role play that time is irrelevant for Transcendent but the game mechanics works off the iTurnIncrements.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me.

JosEPh_II said:
And as you have left Modern Era in the xml there may be circumstances were when a modder goes to look for Atomic they will only find Modern Era. We've had this before and when the clean up was done it caused Save game breaking changes just because of Naming. I really think from the files that Modern should've stayed named Modern but with a correspondingly shortened timeframe and number of techs. So many interconnected files. :p
Click to expand...

I'm a little confused. Yes, it's confusing that ERA_MODERN refers to the Atomic Era now, and I would rather change it to ERA_ATOMIC, but I figured leaving the tag as ERA_MODERN would reduce the likelihood of breaking something elsewhere. I see now why this era split has taken so long.

Thunderbrd said:
Ok, new notes. As you can see, getting the x grid spacing sorted out is my highest concern.
Click to expand...

Should I redo my files to leave a blank column at the start of each future era? I am also thinking that the Cosmic Perspective tech should be the start of the Galactic Era (which is what I had planned at the beginning).
 
Whomever is commenting its messing up the sheet. So I am reposting them here. These are not my comments

X31
Perhaps we should move Classical lifestyle here and move back all these techs to x32, or even shift Classical 2 columns up, to x30, moving both 30 and 31 up one. This gives us room to dig into Classical more for the medieval at the end here because a lot of the late classical techs are more medieval style technologies anyhow.

X32
An alternative that strikes me here is that Education may well be THE gateway tech for the Rennaissance. But the idea to provide formal education and the idea to form universities to provide that higher education and places of dedicated research could be something that derives from that Rennaissance entrance tech. This would make it so you could quickly start researching faster by getting into the Ren era but if Toffer's concept is implemented to make it so that older techs become more expensive if you've moved past the era they are in, putting Education just on the other side of an era shift would be very helpful for balancing this era where we tend to have a structure that currently creates a major snowball effect for the game's tech leader.

X36
In-game experience, the siege weapons seem to upgrade too quickly during this age. It's something I want to take a closer look at soon.

X40
Machinery, Smithing, Vassalage (especially vassalage, which could well be the very definition of the medieval mindset and could be converted into THE gateway tech for the Medieval) all strike me as medieval. I get that it's also late Roman but perhaps medieval shouldn't be tied to the fall of Rome so closely.

X41
Either way, we need to get it nailed down which x collumn is the gateway to the medieval so that I can redesign the cost charts.

X47
Strange issue with Voodoo here... many of its buildings are prereq'd on fundamentalism but you cannot get voodoo without fundamentalism.

X51
So I guess we'll need to insert a column and a gateway tech for this era. The Rennaissance was a revolution against bias against learning. Perhaps the tech could be called Critical Thinking or Independent Thought or something along those lines.

X60
Perhaps we should make the introduction into the Industrial Age be Replacement Parts? Would take a small amount of moving around but it seems to fit best here.

X75
If it's going to be the Atomic Age, then we should split here and leave only Fission in this column as the gateway tech and move things around that. Not sure about Surrealism. Consumerism sounds like an 'after' tech. The warfare techs would be a matter of 'is it before the end of WWII or after the end of WWII?'

X87
I suggest starting this age with Communication Networks (the internet basically) as the gateway tech for the Information Age.

X98
Nano-Architecture sounds like the gateway tech to the nanotech age so should be in its own column here. Thus we'll need to insert a new column and move it in there. Invisibility should probably be before that, Perhaps Advanced Environmental Systems and Prototyped Pathogens. I'm not sure about Ubiquitous Computing. Fusion probably after rather than before. Thought scanning probably after rather than before. I'm basing this all on what's likely to be about to be invented and what has some years more to come. This is basically right where we are right now in 2017, trying to break into these techs. Even a few columns ahead of this we're still working on perfecting.

X109
I suggest Homo Superior to be the tech that would break us into the transhuman era so somewhere around here we need to create the column for it to stand alone in.

X120
Obviously, Interstellar Travel sounds like a perfect tech to enter the Galactic era with. So the other two would just have to shift right here.

X133
Looks like Time travel would be what makes things wonky here so that we're entering a new age.

X143
Maybe a new gateway tech here... Ascension Theory

Use the comment feature instead of filling in cells with text.
 
Wasn't me on the comments. I'll have to think these a bit. At one point Tbrd commented that the start-of-era techs should be about lifestyle and thought, rather than inventions. They would be analogous to Nomadic Lifestyle, Sedentary Lifestyle, and Classical Lifestyle.

To further add complexity, I set it up so the start of each future era would open a new space colonization zone. Advanced Environmental Systems (cislunar space), Deep Space Colonies (solar system; note this tech is not in V8 of SpaceCol), Interstellar Travel, Space Creasing (intergalactic), and Quantum Dualflux Temporal Rift (interdimensional, to be moved forward a few columns) are all planned to be at the start of their respective eras. Or they could all go in the first column after the gateway techs. Furthermore, the last column of each era allows a new space economy wonder (Lunar Trade, Planetary Megastructures, Folding Space, Cosmic Engineering, Reality Reprogramming (which is second to last rather than the last, which is its own separate thing)). These patterns are meant as bookends so that each future era can be thought of as the achievement of a new level on the Kardeshev scale.

So, we have a lot of different patterns that we want the tree to satisfy, and it could get complicated.
 
pepper2000 said:
Should I redo my files to leave a blank column at the start of each future era?
Click to expand...
With one tech that all techs beyond it must have as a prereq, yes.

pepper2000 said:
I am also thinking that the Cosmic Perspective tech should be the start of the Galactic Era (which is what I had planned at the beginning).
Click to expand...
I'd agree but it doesn't seem like the rest of the techs really jive with that. From an X collumn count factor, the spacing would appear better if it were interstellar travel.

Hydromancerx said:
I was really trying to get Fission on its own at X75. But that messed things up so much! However if you just move Fission from X75 to X77 then nothing needs to be moved! It just has to be in front of Modern Physics. So everything else can stay the same and Fission is just moved over 2 columns.
Click to expand...
That would work as long as we insert a new column for Fission to stand alone in as the gateway tech. Looking at that adjustment it could all work that way. See... one thing we NEVER want to do is have a tech require ANY prereq techs in the same column or columns beyond it. Since all techs after the gateway tech must require that tech or one after it, we'd never want any other techs in the same column as the gateway tech. I don't think we should be too disturbed by the amount of work it's going to take to change so many x grid xmls. We're making a mess here but we plan it out and once we complete it we just go through and search the tech page for the tech we're looking for, set the x and sometimes y and the cost and move on. It would go pretty quick once fully planned out. Prereq changes take a little more time.

Hydromancerx said:
Use the comment feature instead of filling in cells with text.
Click to expand...
Comments aren't as visible and don't stand out as a comment has been made there. If the text boxes on those are set to 'clip' then it shouldn't be 'messing' wih anything else. It's already causing me trouble to have to flip back to this page to reference the notes I put there. Maybe I just need my own document to keep notes on huh? BTW, you would simply double-click on a note field to open up the whole note in a text box.

pepper2000 said:
At one point Tbrd commented that the start-of-era techs should be about lifestyle and thought, rather than inventions. They would be analogous to Nomadic Lifestyle, Sedentary Lifestyle, and Classical Lifestyle.
Click to expand...
They may not always need to be that. They could be whatever best captures the essence of the new era and seems potentially rational that all techs beyond it would for whatever stretch of the imagination would require that tech. The point is to summarize the entry into the age perfectly and set it in a position where it helps to balance out the lengths of the eras it divides. It shouldn't be a tech that's tooo busy if possible because it will get all the education factors of the new era and so on so it's already going to get busy. If we want to introduce a whole new tech there it could make sense too. I was looking for where the era splits should be based on the techs in the region and the ways in which they would dramatically change lifestyles in general.

pepper2000 said:
To further add complexity, I set it up so the start of each future era would open a new space colonization zone. Advanced Environmental Systems (cislunar space), Deep Space Colonies (solar system; note this tech is not in V8 of SpaceCol), Interstellar Travel, Space Creasing (intergalactic), and Quantum Dualflux Temporal Rift (interdimensional, to be moved forward a few columns) are all planned to be at the start of their respective eras. Or they could all go in the first column after the gateway techs. Furthermore, the last column of each era allows a new space economy wonder (Lunar Trade, Planetary Megastructures, Folding Space, Cosmic Engineering, Reality Reprogramming (which is second to last rather than the last, which is its own separate thing)). These patterns are meant as bookends so that each future era can be thought of as the achievement of a new level on the Kardeshev scale.
Click to expand...
'Or they could all go in the first column after the gateway techs' would be my answer to that. If that defies my suggestions then that's fine... I was just looking for what I felt would be the best placements but if it's already well thought out then all we really need to do is just add the new column with the gateway and move on. I just need to get the X grid sorted out so I can plot out the cost charts properly.
 
OK, good. It looks like we'll need a V8.1 soon, and I'll post that in the modmod forum before I head out on my vacation.
 
If we are doing gateway techs for sure and we are going to have to move things over then I recommend we just make brand new techs rather than trying to force an existing tech to be a gateway. These gateway techs should be a summary of the different aspect of the previous era. It should require all the milestones of an era. Thus you cannot get past that gateway without getting the important techs of an era.

Likewise all techs beyond the gateway should pass through it. Such as ...

Tech A -> Tech X
Tech B -> Tech Y
Tech C -> Tech Z

Then we make A + B + C = The Gateway tech. And then have X, Y and Z require the Gateway tech.

I will have to go through the techs and get some proposals.
 
Ok as proposed before ...

Medieval Lifestyle
Req Techs: Smithing AND Paved Roads AND Geocenterism AND Vasslage

Theology
Req Techs: Code of Laws AND Meditation AND Musical Notation AND Medieval Lifestyle

Armor Crafting
Req Tech: Medieval Lifestyle

Rudder
Req Tech: Medieval Lifestyle

Feudalism
Req Tech: Code of Laws AND Medieval Lifestyle

Fire Brigades
Req Tech: Sanitation AND Medieval Lifestyle

Civil Service
Req Tech: Meritocracy AND Sanitation AND Medieval Lifestyle

Engineering
Req Tech: Carnal Systems AND Medieval Lifestyle

Agricultural Engineering
Req Tech: Forestry AND Feudalism

Guilds
Req Tech: Feudalism AND Insurance
 
Renaissance Lifestyle
Req Tech: Algebra AND Tournaments AND Compass AND Anatomy

Printing Press
Req Tech: Renaissance Lifestyle

Gunpowder
Req Tech: Coal Mining AND Renaissance Lifestyle

Humanism
Req Tech: Renaissance Lifestyle

Astrolabe
Req Tech: Renaissance Lifestyle

Oil Painting
Req Tech: Renaissance Lifestyle
 
Hydromancerx said:
Well if you could put in the new Information, Nanotech, Cosmic and Transcendent Eras into the core that would be good. While you are there maybe rename the Modern to Atomic.
Click to expand...

As I pointed out to pepper this Name Change can be very problematic down the road. At least 5 interconnected files need attention for this. And this is probably also Save game breaking. One of those 5 files (and there maybe more) has over 40K lines of code! You just really can not come in now and do this with out some research on how much inter-connectivity work needs to be done. And a python script to do the work is iffy business if the one that does the python is no longer around later down the road.

JosEPh
 
Hydromancerx said:
Medieval Lifestyle
Req Techs: Smithing AND Paved Roads AND Geocenterism AND Vasslage
Click to expand...

Is this sufficient to close the beeline to Feudalism? I hope so. I don't have the tech tree in front of me so I ask.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

CainStar
C2C gives error at launch, but normal Civ4 doesn't work either.
Replies
3
Views
302
JL1312
J
S
[MOD] Just a list of what I think C2C going stand-alone MAY pay at least some attention to.
Replies
15
Views
2K
Osk21
Osk21
Ghostly Wolfmoon
C2C SVN Download, seeking help setting up in Linux, please
Replies
10
Views
1K
cobbaut
cobbaut
S
It's ALIIIVE!!! Multi-Maps is a GO!!!
2
Replies
33
Views
4K
Osk21
Osk21
SlapstickMojo
C2C Developer Podcast Interview
Replies
9
Views
2K
Thunderbrd
Thunderbrd
Back
Top Bottom