[RD] Why y'all always trying to defend Nazis?

[Cutlass]

There were way more communist flags at that event than Nazi flags

Show me a picture of the event with any communist flag. You are the very first person who has suggested that there was any there.

(I think there was like one? Probably an FBI plant tbh),

Yet you had all these fascist flags.

and pretty much all of the violence was started by Antifa communists. Makes you think.

There was no reports of a communist being there. Since there are essentially no communists in the United States today.

 

[civver_764]

Your user-title is "Pro-White". I'm not making a lot of bold, imaginative leaps here.

Yeah, I think white people are pretty cool, so what? Doesn't mean I hate other races. What does "white supremacist" even mean?

Two things come to mind:
1) You would think people who shout "Jews will not replace us" during night time tiki-torch rallies would take pride in killing six million sub-humans.
2) Anyone who says the Holocaust didn't happen is a liar. I've stood in the gas chambers of Majdanek where the walls are still stained blue from the gas.

1) Uhh...no that's clearly absurd. It's no different than BLM chanting about white people. Doesn't mean I think they want to gas every white person. Maybe some of them do, but I would at least give them the benefit of the doubt.
2) They're not necessarily lying, they could just genuinely believe that it didn't happen.

 

[inthesomeday]

Well, word of advice, you guys should probably stop with the whole rioting thing and throwing bottles of urine at the police. I'm not surprised the police are more uneasy around ya'll.

I really really WISH all these liberals who tag along would riot. Then we could get somewhere. But most of these people aren't that violent yet.

And I'm not really complaining, you seem to think I am. I know for a fact the police will be there to try and shut Leftists down whenever we organize. It doesn't surprise me. I'm just saying that it's nowhere near the same way for the right wing, which you seem to mistakenly think it is.

I'm not here to defend Hitler or Stalin. I reject all forms of authoritarianism,

You do not. You support capitalism, and seem to be vehemently defending these Nazis.

but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to notice the blatant double standards at play. Why is the media railing on and on about "neo nazi terrorism" but we haven't heard a peep about "communist terrorism"?

Well, both are getting called terrorists by different media sources. If you point me to Huff Post and CNN calling out Nazis I point you to Fox and, probably, also CNN calling out Antifa. The difference is the Nazis are the ones being actually violent; Antifa are out to defend themselves and their communities. So the real double standard is somehow trying to compare the actions of the two.

There were way more communist flags at that event than Nazi flags (I think there was like one? Probably an FBI plant tbh), and pretty much all of the violence was started by Antifa communists. Makes you think.

This just in: self-defense and the defense of your community is violence. Those violent Polish resistance... The Finnish are the REAL Soviets

So defending free speech and non-violence makes me a white supremacist. RIP logic.

Well no. Defending white supremacists makes you more of a white supremacist sympathizer.

 

[Traitorfish]

Yeah, I think white people are pretty cool, so what? Doesn't mean I hate other races. What does "white supremacist" even mean?

"Someone who spends their free time defending neo-Nazis" is a good start.

 

[Ajidica]

1) Uhh...no that's clearly absurd. It's no different than BLM chanting about white people. Doesn't mean I think they want to gas every white person. Maybe some of them do, but I would at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why is it absurd? If your slogan is to ensure that "Jews will not replace us", surely you would want to take pride in the fact seventy years ago you ideological fellow travelers kicked Jews out of economic and civil society, and then tried to wipe them out on industrial lines to ensure that they "never would replace you".

2) They're not necessarily lying, they could just genuinely believe that it didn't happen.

Then they have all the intellectual rigor of Flat Earthers. Still not looking great for the alleged superiority of Master Race.

 

[civver_764]

I really really WISH all these liberals who tag along would riot. Then we could get somewhere. But most of these people aren't that violent yet.

And I'm not really complaining, you seem to think I am. I know for a fact the police will be there to try and shut Leftists down whenever we organize. It doesn't surprise me. I'm just saying that it's nowhere near the same way for the right wing, which you seem to mistakenly think it is.

Yeah dude...I don't think they would shut you down if you weren't rioting, but that's just me.

Well, both are getting called terrorists by different media sources. If you point me to Huff Post and CNN calling out Nazis I point you to Fox and, probably, also CNN calling out Antifa. The difference is the Nazis are the ones being actually violent; Antifa are out to defend themselves and their communities. So the real double standard is somehow trying to compare the actions of the two.

Antifa initiated force, and the right-wingers defended against the use of force. I agree, there is no comparison.

This just in: self-defense and the defense of your community is violence. Those violent Polish resistance... The Finnish are the REAL Soviets

Attacking people for trying to listen to a speech is not self-defense under anything reasonable definition of the term, it's just being a jerk.

"Someone who spends their free time defending neo-Nazis" is a good start.

So your definition of white supremacy has nothing to do with white people or supremacy. Makes sense.

Why is it absurd? If your slogan is to ensure that "Jews will not replace us", surely you would want to take pride in the fact seventy years ago you ideological fellow travelers kicked Jews out of economic and civil society, and then tried to wipe them out on industrial lines to ensure that they "never would replace you".

Uhh...maybe because not wanting to be replaced is totally normal and natural and wanting to genocide an entire race of people is completely psychotic? Seriously dude? I think you might be missing a bit of a "middle ground" here.

 

[Ryika]

Well, both are getting called terrorists by different media sources. If you point me to Huff Post and CNN calling out Nazis I point you to Fox and, probably, also CNN calling out Antifa. The difference is the Nazis are the ones being actually violent; Antifa are out to defend themselves and their communities. So the real double standard is somehow trying to compare the actions of the two.

Imagine Antifa didn't show up to counter-protest, what do you think would happen?

 

[Traitorfish]

So your definition of white supremacy has nothing to do with white people or supremacy. Makes sense.

I don't know if the neo-Nazis would agree that it has nothing to do with white people or supremacy.

Uhh...maybe because not wanting to be replaced is totally normal and natural

Who is proposing that they be replaced, and by who? Oftentimes, the threats a person perceives are as important as his reaction.

 

[inthesomeday]

Imagine Antifa didn't show up to counter-protest, what do you think would happen?

The Nazis would continue with their violence against minorities, obviously. I mean we do have a pretty representative historical precedent here I think.

I guess you're trying to accuse me of slippery slope logic but I think that when a bunch of people get together and be violent they won't stop themselves.

 

[civver_764]

I don't know if the neo-Nazis would agree that it has nothing to do with white people or supremacy.

Well not necessarily...

Spoiler :

Anyways, obviously there's a difference between agreeing with someone's ideology and defending their right to not be attacked and express their views.

Who is proposing that they be replaced, and by who? Oftentimes, the threats a person perceives are as important as his reaction.

Anybody that promotes open borders policies, for one.

Show me a picture of the event with any communist flag. You are the very first person who has suggested that there was any there.

The Charlottesville mayor literally flew the Communist Antifa flag:

 

[Traitorfish]

The Nazis would continue with their violence against minorities, obviously. I mean we do have a pretty representative historical precedent here I think.

Reportedly, the rabbi of the Beth Israel synagogue in downtown Charlottesville had the temple's Torah scrolls removed for safekeeping, after threats to the temple and congregation were made online, and a number of armed men were seen loitering outside the building during the Shabbat service. At the end of the service, the rabbi asked his parishioners to leave through the rear entrance, in small groups.

But why would the Jews, of all people, have developed a nose for trouble?

Well not necessarily...

Spoiler :

Four hundred years ago, Charlottesville was called Monasukapanough, so this rings pretty hollow.

Anyways, obviously there's a difference between agreeing with someone's ideology and defending their right to not be attacked and express their views.

There's a difference between defending somebody's right to express an opinion, and actively defending those opinions as reasonable. You've opted to do the latter.

Anybody that promotes open borders policies, for one.

In what sense? Is there some sort of one in/one out rule that I haven't been told about?

 

[El_Machinae]

"Someone who spends their free time defending neo-Nazis" is a good start.

I think that free speech is under too much pressure these days. If pro-right rallies are being attacked, and pro-right speakers are being whisked away for safety reasons, then free speech is under pressure.

The problem with the Charlottesville rallies, as far as the alt-right members are concerned, is that they should have kicked out the people who were trying to join them but dressed in Nazi and Nazi-derived paraphernalia. That was the problem. Nazis felt welcome to join, and they were welcome to join.

If it was a rally on free speech, then that's a different thing. I'd be fine with all types of weirdos showing up. But these rallies were expressed as 'unite the Right'. And this means that they implicitly accepted Nazis into their ranks.

 

[Cutlass]

Well not necessarily...

Spoiler :

Anyways, obviously there's a difference between agreeing with someone's ideology and defending their right to not be attacked and express their views.

Anybody that promotes open borders policies, for one.

The Charlottesville mayor literally flew the Communist Antifa flag:

And yet you don't have any evidence of a communist flag.

 

[inthesomeday]

Yeah, Civver, if you're gonna make the argument that a flag with a gigantic swastika on it doesn't represent white supremacy I can say that the flag that says "anti fascist action" is a flag that represents anti fascist action. (Which it is)

 

[Traitorfish]

The funny thing is, he's very close to speaking some sort of sense sense. The "Antifascist Action" logo is derived from one used by the KPD-leader front group Antifaschistische Aktion in the 1930s, formed after their original paramilitary wing, the Roter Frontkämpferbund, was banned. Where he veers off course, ploughing through the fields of madness with positively Klannish abandon, is that the current AFA is a decentralised network without explicit political affiliations, whose membership are as a rule actively suspicious of formal political organisations, and for that precisely that reason is avoided like the plague by all Marxist-Leninists, who prefer their own centralised front-organisations.

Notably, it's frequently used alongside the anti-fascist arrows, which was employed by the Social Democratic Party's own paramilitary organisation- it was Weimar Germany, even the moderates had a paramilitary wing- the Eiserne Front, which was explicitly anti-Communist. Symbolism has that sort of tendency to break free of its original institutional context.

At any rate, I imagine that when Civver says "communist flag", he means it in a rather broader sense than the rest of us. A Pride flag would quite likely qualify, for example, or an Israeli flag.

 

[civver_764]

There's a difference between defending somebody's right to express an opinion, and actively defending those opinions as reasonable. You've opted to do the latter.

Have I defended any "white supremacist" opinions in this thread, or ever? Please let me know.

In what sense? Is there some sort of one in/one out rule that I haven't been told about?

When you look at the data, it's hard to deny what is happening:

There's nothing wrong with wanting to stop that trend. I would argue that if you know about this demographic fate, and still argue for open borders immigration, you are advocating for the replacement of white people as the majority in America.

I think that free speech is under too much pressure these days. If pro-right rallies are being attacked, and pro-right speakers are being whisked away for safety reasons, then free speech is under pressure.

The problem with the Charlottesville rallies, as far as the alt-right members are concerned, is that they should have kicked out the people who were trying to join them but dressed in Nazi and Nazi-derived paraphernalia. That was the problem. Nazis felt welcome to join, and they were welcome to join.

If it was a rally on free speech, then that's a different thing. I'd be fine with all types of weirdos showing up. But these rallies were expressed as 'unite the Right'. And this means that they implicitly accepted Nazis into their ranks.

I see where you're coming from, but I think a lot of right-wingers feel like "well they don't have to disavow Communists, why should we have to disavow Nazis?" That's my take on it at least. And the FBI is known to infiltrate right-wing events with overtly Nazi attire. It's like their ultimate weapon is to call someone a Nazi, a lot of people feel resentful because of that.

And yet you don't have any evidence of a communist flag.

That is explicitly a communist flag.

 

[Traitorfish]

Have I defended any "white supremacist" opinions in this thread, or ever? Please let me know.

You spent multiple posts defending neo-Nazis. You went so far as to claim that Holocaust denial was simply a difference of opinion. And immediately below, you repeat "white genocide" conspiracy theories not only as plausible, but as self-evident. You're not making much effort to disguise your comfort with these views.

When you look at the data, it's hard to deny what is happening:

There's nothing wrong with wanting to stop that trend. I would argue that if you know about this demographic fate, and still argue for open borders immigration, you are advocating for the replacement of white people as the majority in America.

These graphs don't show total population, only proportion of the total. "Replacement" indicates a tendency towards zero, and the charts lack the context necessary to support such a trend. For all we know, the white population may have double, it's just that the overall population tripled.

 

[Cutlass]

That is explicitly a communist flag.

Evidence? There isn't a communist movement in the US. See, it doesn't look like any of the listed communist flags. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Communist_flags

It just says antifa. Which is not a communist organization. And, you know, this is an antifa flag.

This flag destroyed the 3 most powerful fascist nations ever.

 

[Lexicus]

This flag destroyed the 3 most powerful fascist nations ever.

Heh. “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”.

 

[civver_764]

You spent multiple posts defending neo-Nazis. You went so far as to claim that Holocaust denial was simply a difference of opinion. And immediately below, you repeat "white genocide" conspiracy theories not only as plausible, but as self-evident. You're not making much effort to disguise your comfort with these views.

Holocaust denial is literally a difference of opinion. It's a matter of historical debate, no different than any other sort of revisionism. That's simply a matter of definition, not really sure how can deny that.

My opposition to "white genocide" similarly has nothing to do with white people being superior, just wanting them to survive as a culture and as a people. Maybe you don't agree that "white genocide" is a bad thing, but that's another discussion entirely from whether white people are some sort of superior race.

So, try again.

These graphs don't show total population, only proportion of the total. "Replacement" indicates a tendency towards zero, and the charts lack the context necessary to support such a trend. For all we know, the white population may have double, it's just that the overall population tripled.

I would definitely make the case that making an ethnic group a minority in a country founded and built by them constitutes replacement, for sure. Especially when we live in the kind of political system we do, where you are subject to the whims of the majority.

Evidence? There isn't a communist movement in the US. See, it doesn't look like any of the listed communist flags. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Communist_flags

It just says antifa. Which is not a communist organization. And, you know, this is an antifa flag.

This flag destroyed the 3 most powerful fascist nations ever.

Haha, no. "Antifa" are an actual anarcho-communist group (or I guess...decentralized groups). The flag comes from the German Antifa in the 1930s, who were explicitly communist. They openly celebrate burning the American flag:

Spoiler :

Here's a picture of them with the Hammer and Sickle:

Spoiler :

Not sure if that pic is from Charlottesville itself, but I assure you they were there. They like to attack cops, throw bottles of urine at people, and start riots. And the mayor of Charlottesville let them fly their flag over the city capitol building. Pretty insane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)