I now know what Verhoeven felt like after people took Starship Troopers seriously.
On reflection the best part of this conversation was the sheer number of basic factual errors and non sequiturs that christos200 made defending Chinggis Khaan. Here's a short-list:
christos200 said:
His conquests allowed East-West trade to begin again.
It had never
stopped. In actual fact, the Song dynasty which the Chinggisid Yuan replaced was famous for its trade goods. Ibn Battuta for example wrote that:
Among the inhabitants of China there are those who own numerous ships, on which they send their agents to foreign places. For nowhere in the world are there to be found people richer than the Chinese. Those ships are meant to have traded as far away as Egypt.
christos200 said:
A famous example of East-West communication in the time of the Khans was Marco Polo. Thanks to the peace brought by the Khans in Asia, trade flourished.
Actually, scholarly opinion is that it either stagnated or went backwards. The sea-route under the Song and Southern Song was by its nature more efficient: ship cargoes are measured in tens of tonnes, wagons in hundreds of kilos. A hundred large ships - which wouldn't be an unreasonable estimate of out-going annual Chinese sea traffic under the Song - would require thousands upon thousands of wagons to match.
christos200 said:
Also, the Westerners started to want the Chinese and Indian products, which after the Mongol Empire collapsed led to the discovery of America.
Westerners had wanted those for a long time before. Like a really long time before. Pepper and silk are mentioned by Roman sources. I'm also not sure how the collapse of the Mongol Empire led to the discovery of America... umpteen centuries later.
christos200 said:
During his and his sons rule, several scholars from Persia, China and Europe worked together at the court of the Great Khan, which allowed scientific progress.
What ground-breaking scientific discoveries arose from these ground-breaking discussions?
christos200 said:
Because it indirectly helped in starting the era or Colonization, because unifying China did in the end more good to the Chinese people than bad
The Chinggisids saved China because... colonization!
christos200 said:
If you want to believe anti-Mongolian propaganda and ignore historical facts, it does not matters to me. Why should someone bother with one random guy in the internet when people from universities and scholars say the truth.
Apparently there's a cabal of people peddling anti-Mongolian propaganda. WHEN ONE OF YOU GUYS SEE THEM, MAKE SURE TO TELL ME OKAY? Because I have really strong opinions about Mongolians and think they should all do something. Also, there is one universal truth about this issue!
christos200 said:
I never said that there was never West-East trade before Genghis. Chinese goods were found in the former Roman Empire. I said that Genghis Khan managed to increase East-West trade, which had suffered since the Barbarian invasions. First read, then comment.
Please prove this claim.