Narz
keeping it real
Thread would be interesting with a poll.
Both my partner & I are pretty much totally apathetic towards marriage.
Both my partner & I are pretty much totally apathetic towards marriage.
Will you get married, are you married if either are so, why?
- Thread starter Elta
- Start date
Ergo Sum
Prince
Narz
keeping it real
Gotta agree 100% with Domination3000 regarding his above quoted comment.
Unless of course you write you own vows which I would certainly do if I ever married.
But if you say "'till death do us part" you should goddamn well mean it. Personally I would never say it because I am not willing to make that level of commitment.
Honestly, I think every person with a child should make an 18-year commitment to their partner. This is far more realistic than "'till death do us part" which the statistical majority cannot handle.
Unless of course you write you own vows which I would certainly do if I ever married.
But if you say "'till death do us part" you should goddamn well mean it. Personally I would never say it because I am not willing to make that level of commitment.
Honestly, I think every person with a child should make an 18-year commitment to their partner. This is far more realistic than "'till death do us part" which the statistical majority cannot handle.
Ergo Sum
Prince
Contradicting yourself
My point is, marriage is what you want it to be. Yes you can get a legal contract out of it, no it is not "til death do us part" unless you want it to be. That's a strong idea in American society but the form of marriage is far from a constant when you look at different countries and different people. Proscribing what you think marriage should be is not doing any good.
Jabarto
Emperor
Wiki puts it at 40%, and the top pages on Google put it between 40% and 60%. I guess it depends on which source you trust, but I don't think I'm far off in any case.
Narz
keeping it real
How am I contradicting myself?
I can't speak for Dom3000 but all I'm saying is if you're going to have typical vows you should honor them. If you want to change your vows I'm all for it. If you want to make a 852 day commitment to a horse, three lesbians or a ball of wax you should be free to do it.
The way most (by which I mean the majority) of adults today treat marriage is a bit sickening.
Look at John McCain for instance, in sickness or health my ass. Not even trying to pick on the GOP (it's like fishing in a barrel), there are examples from all sides of the political, business & social spectrum. Granted if a person divorces you you can't do anything about it but that's all the more reason to be very, very careful who you pick.
We live (in the developed world) in a very transient, pick-and-choose-and-change-your-mind type of culture & the traditional concept of marriage fits very poorly into it for most (not all). Some people can handle the "death do us part" thing. Most (>50%) cannot & either divorce or are unhappy. I'm exceptional in certain ways but not when it comes to commitment so I choose not to play poor odds. I think if more people waited to marry or abstained & their family & friends didn't pressure them society would be better off.
I can't speak for Dom3000 but all I'm saying is if you're going to have typical vows you should honor them. If you want to change your vows I'm all for it. If you want to make a 852 day commitment to a horse, three lesbians or a ball of wax you should be free to do it.
The way most (by which I mean the majority) of adults today treat marriage is a bit sickening.
Look at John McCain for instance, in sickness or health my ass. Not even trying to pick on the GOP (it's like fishing in a barrel), there are examples from all sides of the political, business & social spectrum. Granted if a person divorces you you can't do anything about it but that's all the more reason to be very, very careful who you pick.
We live (in the developed world) in a very transient, pick-and-choose-and-change-your-mind type of culture & the traditional concept of marriage fits very poorly into it for most (not all). Some people can handle the "death do us part" thing. Most (>50%) cannot & either divorce or are unhappy. I'm exceptional in certain ways but not when it comes to commitment so I choose not to play poor odds. I think if more people waited to marry or abstained & their family & friends didn't pressure them society would be better off.
PlutonianEmpire
King of the Plutonian Empire
Prove it.
Ergo Sum
Prince
Look at the phrases I bolded - these contradict each other because Dom says it's only ever 'til death do us part.'
When did I say you shouldn't honor your vows? All I'm sticking up for is not holding onto some calcified social concept to construct a decay-of-society narrative. Not everyone buys into this "marriage is forever" line, and that's okay. Divorces happen, and it's oftentimes a new beginning for people who felt they took the wrong path. It may hurt some people, especially children, but it's far from the end of the world.
kiwitt
Road to War Modder
That is very much the modern view ... marriage seems like a "tradition", but for us it is formalising what we already are.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Narz wasn't contradicting himself, I think you misread him.
Prove it.
Now I'm no Casonova, but I've been around the block a few times, and I suspect your internet addiction, your unemployment, the fact you live with your parents, your misogynous comments, and your creepy sexual fetishization of blue people all would be bigger detractors than you being "too nice".
kiwitt
Road to War Modder
No worries he explained himself later
Yep ... if you can't say that and mean it then do not get married. We did and still continue to say it to each other re-affirming.
It's amazing what you can achieve when you are "two as one" instead of two individuals simply cohabiting. i.e. more than sum of two parts.
This is innuendo.
kiwitt
Road to War Modder
Explain ?!?!?
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Almost sig worthy. All three of my more real relationships happened when I was quite nice. All my short lived flings happened when I was being a dick. One girl was a short lived experience when I was a dick, until I wizened up, was nice, and ended up dating her more seriously later.
No, clearly he needs to be mean to them, but otherwise stay the same. This gets all the ladies.
All good, I was actually responding to Ergo Sum.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
You make it sound so romantic
Yeah, I get that, but I was focusing on the emotional response. I haven't got a clue what the differences are with marriage but I've got one of those "yeah, we're living together" contracts when we bought a house.
Well, for the emotional part of it, most women view weddings as a special day (for some reason) and something they have been waiting for for years.
Tani Coyote
Son of Huehuecoyotl
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 15,195
Well, for the emotional part of it, most women view weddings as a special day (for some reason) and something they have been waiting for for years.
My mom said it's just tradition that the woman's family finances most of it when I told her what my grandmother said about who provides what.
This is why I think this is a good tradition - the female wants to be the princess, the man just wants to get married.
And lo and behold, it's true - our family forked up 10K for my brother's wedding, the bride? 25K.
---
I can understand some want the date to be special but... good lord. Live within your means.
Especially considering the thing the wedding represents might not even last forever!
That said, it'd be nice if we could curb the divorce rate immensely.
bathsheba666
Fast 'n Bulbous
Well, one of the things you said earlier (about the "piece of paper" only making a difference at the end of a relationship) was just plain wrong, so I was trying to understand what your opinions were, apart from the incorrect information about what marriage entails, legally.
I can certainly understand choosing not to get married yourself, and I'm not here to advocate that anyone SHOULD get married if they don't want to. (I probably sound more traditional and conservative than I really am by harping on this point, but I'm comfortable with contradictions.)
Whether it is "necessary" or not is vague. Necessary for what? To experience love? No. To have a valid long-term relationship? No, of course not. To ensure that your significant other has the legal basis to ensure you are cared for appropriately in the event of a medical emergency? Yes, absolutely.
This is my point: that your feelings about marriage as a traditional social institution should not cloud your reasoning about its impact on the very tangible legal and financial matters that are very relevant here and now. I don't know what you mean by "its basis is dubious," but I do understand the reservations about bygone concepts of women as property and all that outdated nonsense. However, I'd argue that those are merely certain aspects of what getting married traditionally meant (like wearing rings, the woman adopting the man's surname, etc) and that those aspects are all optional.
It is very possible in this day and age to marry someone and make that act and the ceremony accompanying it very personal and very relevant to the two of you, and to avoid the aspects of the act and ceremony that you find distasteful or outdated. Don't dismiss the possibility of marriage simply because it seems like an ancient, musty old tradition; you're not bound by any of those traditions. You are presumably bound by the laws of your state or nation, though, and many of those laws and other institutions are more favorable to you and your loved one if you have that "piece of paper" that you're so quick to dismiss.
Here's a list of the legal and financial benefits of marriage in the U.S. I didn't look up the UK, but I assume many of these would be similar.
OK, I was talking about the relationship, and you're pointing out that marriage is also widely regarded as so feeble that society needs to bolster it with tax concessions.
That's even sadder than my original point, which was somewhat narrower.
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