I must admit, I am really struggling to understand this thread, but I really do want to.
"Wokeist" - When people talk about progressivism without acquaintance
- Thread starter Angst
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bernie14
Filter Manipulator
Is this the best you can do? My guess would be that since insults have been so effective in manipulating your feelings, you have assumed it is an effective method to manipulate others?
So state what you are struggling with...
Honestly, even the title is a struggle.
To be "woke" as I understand it, is to have a wider appreciation of the struggles others face, that you do not experience yourself. A step further is to perhaps act to change this. So a woke activist will be fighting for minorities they are not part of themselves for example.
Perhaps here in the UK, being "woke" while perhaps a bit of a joke, hasn't become so aggressively and negatively hounded. In the US has it become the latest beating stick in the Left Vs. Right?
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
it's usually both an exonym and has negative connotations in the states. not sure about the uk but it's the same in denmark as in the states. 95% of the time, it's used when right wingers are angry about something
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Thank god we've got Dr Phil here
bernie14
Filter Manipulator
Humor. I like it!
bernie14
Filter Manipulator
Seems the argument being made at this point is "purposeful authority good", "arbitrary authority bad". Understanding the difference seems quite important to the "psychological health" of society and this understanding is key, given a species who's evolutionary advantage takes 25 years or so to mature.
RobAnybody
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I'm a bit lost on this discussion, although it does seem interesting & want to understand. Is the contention "instruction can be intrinsically bad" or is it "instruction can be good while used for bad purposes" (the slaves picking cotton example), but that doesn't make the instruction itself bad? Because y'all seem to me (which is why I'm confused) to be saying the same thing.
Now, I do get "obey authority always", which @Angst points to is bad, but that seems to be a different subject? Or maybe a conflated subject?
Now, I do get "obey authority always", which @Angst points to is bad, but that seems to be a different subject? Or maybe a conflated subject?
Lexicus
Deity
It's a conflation, but an illuminating one: the metaphor of society as a family, usually with a king as father and subjects as children.
While I was in college I spent a weekend with a suitemate at his home in Indian Trail NC. We spent two days picking cotton. His family had a few acres growing and that weekend was when it needed to be picked. My instruction took about 5 minutes and included how to pull the cotton from the hard, sharp, dry boll so you didn't cut my fingers all to hell. I would bet that new slaves learned that technique from other slaves. I spent the better part of two days walking hunched over, dragging an increasingly heavy bag through rows of ripe cotton plucking the fluffy cotton from its awful boll. Terrible, back breaking work.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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Corn at least you usually pulled a wagon along with to chuck it into as you stripped it off the stalk. They'd sometimes have a taller bank-board on one side to chuck it against.
It's all hard and repetitive and very good exercise. Corn harvest gets cold instead of hot. But... so long as you aren't counting. I hate field work where you're counting. You can't even daydream while trying to keep a pace.
Now that I think about it, stooping all day really does suck too. I am glad I don't plant rice by hand.
It's all hard and repetitive and very good exercise. Corn harvest gets cold instead of hot. But... so long as you aren't counting. I hate field work where you're counting. You can't even daydream while trying to keep a pace.
Now that I think about it, stooping all day really does suck too. I am glad I don't plant rice by hand.
Akka
Moody old mage.
Yeah, no. I mean, it's an easy copout to pretend that the negative undertone of "woke" is only because of mean right-wingers and/or ignorant idiots as anyone who does know what woke is can't possibly have a negative opinion about it, but that's just illustrating the problem rather than countering it.
Well the other side is PETA for example, the wokest vegans.. There is always a group willing to go to extremes that seem absurd to moderates?
The comparison to PETA is pretty good. I think that we are systematically blind to how horrible we are to animals, with a level of complicity that cannot be overstated. All that's true, and yet PETA is very annoying and mockable.
The average person that mocks PETA is a monster compared to where we need to be. And yet, the person mocking PETA will get thumbs up.
The average person that mocks PETA is a monster compared to where we need to be. And yet, the person mocking PETA will get thumbs up.
Senethro
Overlord
Hypocrisy and/or "scolding/nagging" is a worse crime than complicity.
I think most people in agriculture are fully aware of what happens to put those packets of sausages in the supermarket. I think there are a lot of people who really have no understanding of the whole process, and a lot more who may know roughly but manage to not consider it in context of what they eat.
I was more speaking about the systemic reasons for the excessive animal cruelty. The complicity is overwhelming.
I rarely blame the proximate shepherd of the animal. I have had to mistreat animals to stay out of poverty. I've mistreated animals in order to afford vacations. I was being paid to mistreat them, and if I didn't, someone else would.
There are research questions that need to be answered, but there is a systemic problem in animal research that causes us to use way more animals than we need to. And that is mainly because we don't use enough animals for every experiment, nor are we rewarded for publishing negative results.
People do what they're paid to do. And then there are systemic reasons why we make some of the consumption choices that we make
I rarely blame the proximate shepherd of the animal. I have had to mistreat animals to stay out of poverty. I've mistreated animals in order to afford vacations. I was being paid to mistreat them, and if I didn't, someone else would.
There are research questions that need to be answered, but there is a systemic problem in animal research that causes us to use way more animals than we need to. And that is mainly because we don't use enough animals for every experiment, nor are we rewarded for publishing negative results.
People do what they're paid to do. And then there are systemic reasons why we make some of the consumption choices that we make
Amount of people I know who won't buy their meat from the butchers, only the supermarket.
If a butchers is too real for them what effect would a visit to an abbatoir have on them?
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