Would Communism Be Better Than Capitalism?

[Aleksey_aka_al]

What are all those Cubans doing on rafts anyhow? They live in a great place!

That's the nature of people to strive for a different life with no regard to rationality.

 

[aelf]

I'll give an example - can you tell what year this quote is from? "therefore I exhort you to consider that now the time is come... in which you may... cast off the yoke of bondage, and recover liberty."

When I first read that quote, it struck me how modern it sounds. IMO people have wanted the same things throughout history. Yes, we live better and have more freedoms now (at least in certain countries), but I think that is a product of the greater wealth of the current time, not in a change in human nature. It's not that human nature can't change, or doesn't change at all, but it is a very slow process, and has not occurred to a measurable degree over our recorded history (which, granted, is a very small part of human history).

Ehh. Is a conversation about how China or 'the East' is different or just the same going to come next?

 

[Tahuti]

Soviet, Cuban, Chinese.

Unless political repression is in your list of making a society stronger, I don't see how Communism as practiced in your examples leads to stronger societies. And besides, many self-described Communists wouldn't even consider these countries Communist to begin with.

 

[galdre]

Ehh. Is a conversation about how China or 'the East' is different or just the same going to come next?

If it does, we can blame you now

 

[Algeroth]

Would communism be better than capitalism?

No. I'm not fond on the idiocy of rural life, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Unless political repression is in your list of making a society stronger, I don't see how Communism as practiced in your examples leads to stronger societies.

Capitalism, liberalism, so called democracy all came through violence and repression.

And besides, many self-described Communists wouldn't even consider these countries Communist to begin with.

Over-determinism always hurts connection of words with life. I meant them communist in a broad sense, relative to capitalist countries and in the way that they were oriented on communist future and communist ideals.

 

[kochman]

That's the nature of people to strive for a different life with no regard to rationality.

Why aren't Floridians taking rafts to Cuba then?

Are the stories of oppression and starvation just clever lies because in the end, they prefer Miami and they need an excuse to stay?

 

[kochman]

Capitalism, liberalism, so called democracy all came through violence and repression.

How did the CCCP, Communist Cuba and the PRC come into existence? Tea and crumpets?

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Why aren't Floridians taking rafts to Cuba then?

Because they have a whole world with a slight different but familiar enviroment. And communist countries exist in a capitalist and hostile world where they are isolated from other countries and each other because of that. So when a resident of a communist country would like to change his life by moving somewhere he most probably 1) would have to choose from capitalist countries, 2) choose the best option as they see it in the outside world, especially if it's so close to his own country. Also, never underestimate bias and propaganda, it works both ways and deteriorate the quality of life and happiness heavily when the country is in circumstancely weaker position.

How did the CCCP, Communist Cuba and the PRC come into existence? Tea and crumpets?

Please, read the statement it was my answer on.

 

[Murky]

Being a communists in a capitalist community doesn't seem like a very good plan to me. I favor capitalism, but I want protection against fraud and environmental damage that can result from a Free Market system.

 

[Crezth]

Ummmm...
I don't know. I wouldn't put any of those on my most desired places to live list... but to each his/her own I suppose.

What are all those Cubans doing on rafts anyhow? They live in a great place!

I'd be inclined to say Russia is a lot better off for having been the Soviet Union than not.

 

[Murky]

I'd be inclined to say Russia is a lot better off for having been the Soviet Union than not.

I don't know about that. Is Italy better off for having been at the center of the Roman Empire?

 

[Crezth]

I don't know about that. Is Italy better off for having been at the center of the Roman Empire?

It's a little different. The communist revolution tossed out the Tsar, which was definitely a step forward, and the industrialization that followed was not taking place in any capacity during the rule of the Tsars.

Had Russia not revolved in that fashion, they might well have been defeated outright by the Nazis in World War II.

\/\/\/ It's a decent metric, I will admit that. East Germany, for example, was horrendous.

 

[Quackers]

Why aren't Floridians taking rafts to Cuba then?

Are the stories of oppression and starvation just clever lies because in the end, they prefer Miami and they need an excuse to stay?

One of the best measures to judge society. How many are escaping it and how many are entering it IMO

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Mostest most of what was USSR (or Russian Empire before) has benefited from being the Soviet Union for centuries to come.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Yes, bearing in mind that a utopia is not necessarily a perfect society. Still, a communist society would be the most moral society that the human race could conceivably hope to achieve.

 

[Tahuti]

Capitalism, liberalism, so called democracy all came through violence and repression.

Never said they were any better from a utilitarian perspective, though IMO utilitarianism can be screwed. But I do have personal interests to be more supportive of Capitalism than Communism.

Over-determinism always hurts connection of words with life. I meant them communist in a broad sense, relative to capitalist countries and in the way that they were oriented on communist future and communist ideals.

The Soviet Union, Maoist China and todays Cuba aren't any different from Fascist Italy or Nazi-Germany except in rethoric. Soviet-style "Communism" and Fascism are like different religions, but the methods are always the same.
Only Libertarian Communism of the likes of Bakunin would be significantly different from both the status quo and from Fascism, but I really doubt I want to live in such a society either, as I fear such a society - being a pure democracy - would be very prone to herd comformity and group think.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Why are people talking about Cuba, the USSR, and the PRC as if they are remotely communist? I thought they were all socialist dictatorships.

 

[Murky]

It's a little different. The communist revolution tossed out the Tsar, which was definitely a step forward, and the industrialization that followed was not taking place in any capacity during the rule of the Tsars.

Had Russia not revolved in that fashion, they might well have been defeated outright by the Nazis in World War II.

\/\/\/ It's a decent metric, I will admit that. East Germany, for example, was horrendous.

Sorry, but I still disagree. Russia could've had an industrial revolution without communism. I can't imagine any historian today looking favorably at Stalin's gulags or purges of opposition members. If not for the USA supplying Russia during a critical time on the eastern front they probably wouldn't have done as well against Germany and history would be drastically different. Remember that Russia was ruled by a Tsar during the invasion by Napoleon's army, which was defeated. Course, the Russian winter played a big role in that but you can't say that a communist dictator would have made much difference.

 

[kochman]

I'd be inclined to say Russia is a lot better off for having been the Soviet Union than not.

30+ million people would disagree had they not been murdered.