Would you vote for Calexit?

[Hygro]

We can continue to buy water.

 

[CavLancer]

Huh, Calexit is winning the troll, I mean poll. Look, being an Oregonian I can tell you the solution for Oregon and Washington. The Pacific Northwest sends home all its foreigners from Cali and starts correcting the environmental degradation. Cali ships us all their conservatives and we set up reeducation camps. 'Tree = good' kind of stuff. Now the Pacific Northwest looks like America, maybe 50/50 lib/conservative. Cali looks like... well that's their problem isn't it... The Pacific Northwest is back to being part of America, problem solved.

 

[Esperr]

We can continue to buy water.

At what price? And with what money? The U.S isnt going to allow a state that breaks off to keep using its currency. And again, business, corporations, how are you going to stop a money vacuum if we lower taxes? Not to mention how is exporting to the rest of the U.S going to work? We provide most of the fruits and vegetables for the rest of the country.

 

[Hygro]

I think you just answered your own question.

 

[Farm Boy]

Finally. While succession isn't necessarily the most productive train of thought: Californian wealth, provided it by virtue of geography and positioning as the most powerful American state, can resume its role of innovating socially as well as economically with its wealth cushion - thus refining progress to a level the less prosperous can eventually adopt. Go state engine of law! Plus, it's not like you don't get something from the rest of us. We send you, fairly regularly, the most precious resource we possibly can. The most accomplished of our children. Hobbsyoyo can stand in here as proof.

 

[cardgame]

The hypothetical split could be amicable you know.

Descend into an approximation of the EU as it exists now. Common currency, open borders, the works. We could even keep the military all in one bucket with a pool for defense budget and such.

There might need to be more specifics regarding trade and federal land, but with the right policymakers I think it could be totally doable.

 

[CavLancer]

By selling water to Cali at inflated prices we could mine the profits of the tech giants while at the same time reveling in our new and more functional democracy. The left can be dramatic yet essentially happy on the left coast feeling things while the rest of us go on with our lives. No longer will the right have to acquire a 2/3 majority in the rest of the country to overcome the inevitable vote of the left of the country. I see this as a win-win. It will facilitate the flip between the left and the right as the populace seeks some relief from the idiots in Washington bleeding them white, no matter the party.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Finally. While succession isn't necessarily the most productive train of thought: Californian wealth, provided it by virtue of geography and positioning as the most powerful American state, can resume its role of innovating socially as well as economically with its wealth cushion - thus refining progress to a level the less prosperous can eventually adopt. Go state engine of law! Plus, it's not like you don't get something from the rest of us. We send you, fairly regularly, the most precious resource we possibly can. The most accomplished of our children. Hobbsyoyo can stand in here as proof.

That's genuinely the nicest compliment I've ever had. Thank you!

 

[tetley]

Desalination should not be a problem. California is full of techno-innovators, and they can pull energy and fresh water out of the ocean. And creative ways to do agriculture.

 

[Esperr]

Desalination should not be a problem. California is full of techno-innovators, and they can pull energy and fresh water out of the ocean. And creative ways to do agriculture.

If that were the case then we would already be doing it....

 

[onejayhawk]

We can continue to buy water.

Not at current rates or anything like them. Also, most of the water in the state borders does not belong to the state. Headwaters and reservoirs are on federal land. Hence, you need to buy a lot of water you now get free.

Desalination should not be a problem. California is full of techno-innovators, and they can pull energy and fresh water out of the ocean. And creative ways to do agriculture.

You don't have sufficient generating capacity for the cities. How can you add a massive demand for desalination? Not to mention the environmental damage for both new power plants--nuclear presumably--and new desalination plants.

J

 

[Esperr]

Not at current rates or anything like them. Also, most of the water in the state borders does not belong to the state. Headwaters and reservoirs are on federal land. Hence, you need to buy a lot of water you now get free.

J

I wouldn't even bother, he just keeps posting quick one sentence answers.

 

[Commodore]

Urban areas would get rationed and rural areas would have water deliveries cut, honestly Californian have grown used to drought restrictions so the country would survive .

So you cut off water to the rural areas, therefore killing your agriculture? That's a fast route to having to beg the UN for humanitarian aid to feed your population. Is that price really worth independence? Of course, that's assuming you could even honestly call yourselves independent if you have to rely on aid from other countries just for basic sustenance. Rationing also tends to be an absolute growth killer for an economy.

And you really haven't grown used to drought conditions because you are still part of an extremely well-developed nation that can help you cope with those conditions. Take that away and coping would become much harder. No matter how you slice it, California going its own way would have Californians see a significant decrease in their quality of life. If you are willing to take that hit and think independence is worth the hardship, then by all means secede.

 

[onejayhawk]

Well, that and free water from federally owned reservoirs.

J

 

[Hygro]

I wouldn't even bother, he just keeps posting quick one sentence answers.

"How would you find the purchasing power to import? And how would you be able to continue to export?" I mean, I figured you'd want the "oh... yeah" moment for yourself. Nobody's going to stop buying California produce or tech or movies or education or cars or solar panels or apps or wine or... whatever... just because it's an import. The entire infrastructure to import/export and ship goods is already mature. You want avocados? We want water.

You answered your own question, the exports finance imports. The exports continue because the foreign (rest of USA) demand remains.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The skilled labor force that is building the next strategic bomber for the US military is in the same place that every strategic bomber since the Korean War was built. The Red States will need lots of strategic bombers to feel safe in their paranoia, so we can trade those for power and water.

 

[cardgame]

If that were the case then we would already be doing it....

Necessity is the mother of invention.

 

[Arwon]

And you really haven't grown used to drought conditions because you are still part of an extremely well-developed nation that can help you cope with those conditions. Take that away and coping would become much harder. No matter how you slice it, California going its own way would have Californians see a significant decrease in their quality of life. If you are willing to take that hit and think independence is worth the hardship, then by all means secede.

Yeah, with greater water scarcity their quality of life could end up as low as Australia.

(We use about half the water per person in residential water use than California with absolutely no appreciable impact on living standards)

Main differences are in the garden and in loo efficiency

These figures were 2005, to my knowledge Australian use has declined since then because more drought, and then gone back up a bit because rain meant less water restrictions. (California is just now starting to figure things out)

Not arguing with the rest, just pointing out CA wastes a lot of water that could easily be fixed with simple efficiency and conservation measures. And, apparently, metering.

 

[onejayhawk]

Australia is water rich compared to the privately owned parts of California. Drowning. Try Israel.

J

 

[Vectors]

At what price? And with what money? The U.S isnt going to allow a state that breaks off to keep using its currency. And again, business, corporations, how are you going to stop a money vacuum if we lower taxes? Not to mention how is exporting to the rest of the U.S going to work? We provide most of the fruits and vegetables for the rest of the country.

Any country can use the dollar, they just can't print it.

By selling water to Cali at inflated prices we could mine the profits of the tech giants while at the same time reveling in our new and more functional democracy. The left can be dramatic yet essentially happy on the left coast feeling things while the rest of us go on with our lives. No longer will the right have to acquire a 2/3 majority in the rest of the country to overcome the inevitable vote of the left of the country. I see this as a win-win. It will facilitate the flip between the left and the right as the populace seeks some relief from the idiots in Washington bleeding them white, no matter the party.

The people who that will hurt are the American people at the grocery store

If that were the case then we would already be doing it....

At present prices it isn't worth it, double the price and reduce permanent supply and people will get a lot more interested.

So you cut off water to the rural areas, therefore killing your agriculture? That's a fast route to having to beg the UN for humanitarian aid to feed your population. Is that price really worth independence? Of course, that's assuming you could even honestly call yourselves independent if you have to rely on aid from other countries just for basic sustenance. Rationing also tends to be an absolute growth killer for an economy.

And you really haven't grown used to drought conditions because you are still part of an extremely well-developed nation that can help you cope with those conditions. Take that away and coping would become much harder. No matter how you slice it, California going its own way would have Californians see a significant decrease in their quality of life. If you are willing to take that hit and think independence is worth the hardship, then by all means secede.

Once Americans start paying the costs of that at the grocery store they will reconsider the water blockade.