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[WTP] Quick questions

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by Nightinggale, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Possible, since I had retired from Civ4Col modding for a few years. :dunno:
    I will need to ask the team.

    Sounds reasonable. :think:
    Maybe it should really not be a 100% (as it originally was in RaR) but simply use the same chance as for ships.

    I will check it. :thumbsup:
     
    Mr. ZorG and lethiel like this.
  2. Graken

    Graken Chieftain

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    Hello I'm Charles I love your mod, but have been dreaming of a few additions:
    1 Ranks
    2 Fewer specialised trades in the emigration line.
    3 Able to build 1 tile closer with large cities.

    1 Ranks
    One of the things I find is that I have only ever completed one game of colonization (freecol) because the management of an entire country becomes tedious.
    I would like there to be a rank system where,

    Town mayor would play just like having a single settlement.
    With local pioner able to make local improvements. Depending on the settlement size:
    Villages: Farms, Log Cabins.
    Towns: Plantations and other specialised industries.
    Cities: Industry​
    Trade happens when the mother country sends a supply ship.
    Exploration not possible outside county bounds. ​

    County governer would:
    Manage the county town.
    Be able to found new settlements within a specified distance of the county capital.
    Lend funds to towns for improvements.
    Manage local transport.
    Manage pioner paved road construction.​
    I county governer would not be able to manage the town or improvements in it.
    But might be able to set a vision:
    Eg pop growth, comercial good development, different industry focuses. These would be IA governed.​
    Would not be able to control military or trade.
    At Provincial governer level you have your state capital which you control directly, road construction, trade routes, forming new counties. Militia defence.

    At Vicroy level you have a capital city which you control directly along with your local province. Other provinces are handled by local governers (AI).
    You can go to offensive war with others.

    2 Specialised Trades
    The idea that so many profesionals migrate as in the game is silly. What makes more sense is job offers which paying the king represents of skilled migration makes sense to me.

    3 Dead areas
    The no settle within 3 titles often leaves tiles which can't be settled in. 2 makes sense.

    Regards,
    Charles
     
  3. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    I now know what happened. :)
    The Wagon Trains have gotten a little Combat Strength to not directly be destroyed by e.g. Wild Animals.

    Thus the logic for "Capturing" does not recognize them anymore as Units that could be captured.
    It is easy to fix and most likely I will make it with a random chance of e.g. 50:50.

    @Schmiddie :
    Wagon Trains can be captured again. :thumbsup:
    (Sent you the DLL.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
  4. PPanda0421

    PPanda0421 Chieftain

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    I had questions about gameplay a few days ago and no one bothered to answer them. Is it because you don't know or just don't care? Quite a total different community from CDDA (open source rogue-like game) where all questions from newbies get answered. They even have directions on how to compile the game on various platforms including VS2017 and later.
     
  5. lethiel

    lethiel Streaming Col at https://www.twitch.tv/lethiel01

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    Hey mate, welcome to the mod.
    I think the forum is a bit hectic at the moment as many people post questions and suggestions and some important modding needs to be done too, besides extraordinary real life circumstances influence too.

    1) Yes that is intended. If you choose 'Monarchy' instead of 'Elections' when you declare independence you don't have that challenge.
    2) It should work. You also killed all civilian units the ref might have captured? You don't need to kill the ships (unless they somehow would still carry troops). Can you upload screenshot or savegame?
    3) I just tested (before independence declaration) and I can create cavalry with port royal blades just fine. Can you send screenshot if it continues?
    4) Yes sometimes some units especially the continental guard can be be very hard to 'get around'. A work around is to press shift + left or right arrow to get a better angle.
     
  6. PPanda0421

    PPanda0421 Chieftain

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    Hi thanks for answering my questions and the welcome.

    1) I don't understand the logic for that decision. Yes I chose elections so I shouldn't have access to resources from Europe. That I understand. If I have my own resources I should still be able to 'Hurry Production' by paying gold. I think of it this way - the hammers are local and I am paying extra workers to finish that job. It has nothing to do with elections or monarchy choices.
    2) I killed all the kings fighting units and navel ships listed on the revolution screen. Good point about the civilians though. I'll have to check that when I get a chance.
    3) That world was set aside. I started a new world at the hardest (Revolutionary) level to test something out. Seems the AI is way too passive even at the hardest level. In all my games the Europe AI has never declared war on me once even though they were next-door neighbors and I had little to no military for the longest time. The native AI declared war on me only when I dug up their burial grounds. Something seems off. Back to the question I'll see if the blades bug still exists in this new world. So far, at the hardest level everything looks the same except the AI is getting FFs much faster. Yes I know about the max tax rate as well. Minor thing as you can always boycott goods and sell to Port Royal.
    4) Did not know that! Thanks for the tip!

    Yes people are busy but you should always help/welcome newcomers. After all some of them may have programming experience and might want to help out.
     
  7. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    @Nikostolpidis

    I upload everything to the team git hub server of course.
    We have different development branches and they all have links of course.

    However:

    Please understand that the version (branch) some supporters and myself currently post about is still an internal development branch.
    These supporters currently help with balancing and finding bugs so I can fix them. There were changes to this branch every day last week.

    Also I need to compile a DLL to the branch and provide it, since it otherwise contains only uncompiled sources, XML and graphics.
    You can not simply download the branch and play it - it will simply not work if I do not additionally provide the correct DLL.

    Since we currently change so much, this has become serious overhead (for e.g. informing about updates, answering questions and discussing balancing) which I want to limit to a few selected supporters. (Those people that really help testing and balancing.)

    -----------

    I hope that we can now finally really publish the release officially this weekend. :)
    We discussed again yesterday in the team that we should not wait and continue developing for ever and simply publish now.

    I can really only ask for a bit of patience. :thumbsup:
     
    AnAmericanCommunist and Renera like this.
  8. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Well, there is very little about the game that we do not know. ;)
    Long time community members and players also know a lot.

    We also care, but yes we sometimes are really busy - especially in times like this when we have a brand new development branch in internal testing phase which we try to get ready for release.

    We try to. :)

    Programming experience a good base to get started. :)
    It still takes a lot of time and motivation though to become an experienced modder.

    If you really have enough time and motivation, just contact us. :thumbsup:

    Summary:

    Simply have a little patience. :thumbsup:
    Team and community will answer your questions but it might take a bit sometimes.
     
  9. PPanda0421

    PPanda0421 Chieftain

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    I know all about the software development phases as I am a software engineer myself. I get it. What I am complaining about is some people posted questions after mine and got replies right away.
    So why ignore my questions if there is little to the game you do not know? But I digress (since my questions were answered)... ;)

    Oh I have tons of software development experience, just need the time. However, if you can point to me some Civ4Col modding resources I could read up on them when I get a chance.

    BTW, thanks to lethial who answered my questions.

    PS - About patience, I painstakenly raised 400000 before starting revolution so imagine my surprise when I couldn't use that much of that money when it started. Ended up having close to 500000 when I killed all
    of the king's forces yet still didn't end the revolution. Money is/was king in classic Colonization but apparently is near useless in this mod if you choose 'Elections' instead of 'Monarchy.'

    No more hard feelings...all good now :).
     
  10. lethiel

    lethiel Streaming Col at https://www.twitch.tv/lethiel01

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    I think it's just that you had several questions and some of them were a bit 'intangible' to answer. It's a bit hard for us to know with little information if 2) and 3) are really bugs or you overlook something or whatever. :dunno: Maybe people needed a bit of time.


    You welcome mate. If you want to discuss other stuff you can come to my Twitch channel. I answer instantly ;) (when live)

    There is very little incentive to go Monarchy if you can just hurry. Elections would be far superior. But by the way as far as I remember you can hurry if you have all the required lumber in the city for the project. The problem might really be the required lumber to hurry you cant buy from Europe rather than the gold cost of speeding it up.

    I used to pile up a million gold too. But strategically I believe one should just invest it as soon as possible in his colonies. The earlier you spend money the more dividend.I also stack up on units from Europe right before independence.
     
  11. PPanda0421

    PPanda0421 Chieftain

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    Well when a developer doesn't understand the issue a customer brings up they usually ask for more information. Actually there can be many tiers of 'support' before it goes to the development team, depends on the company size. Anyways, if you don't know then you ask for more information and/or how to reproduce it. You don't just ignore them. Ok, here is the 'normal' way that a developer approaches:
    1. Are you using the most current version? The issue might have been fixed already if you update to the latest patch/version.
    2. Know the solution and present it to customer.
    3. Your description for the issue is vague. Can you give us more details and/or on how to reproduce?
    4. We got your issue report but we're very busy atm. We'll look at it when we get a chance. If it's a game-stopping bug then it will immediately be looked at.
    5. Combination of all the above. If you know the answer right away, then just reply to that number and leave the other numbers for later or for someone else.

    I'm assuming that some of you are professional developers and are familiar with some of these ideas.

    Ignoring questions or cries for help especially when the question comes from a newcomer will leave a bad first impression.

    Please take a look at CDDA project development. Well they have a lot more users/developers but the process should be the same.

    I'll definitely check out your twitch channel. Pretty sure I'll learn some valuable tips :).

    Lumber stock requirement? I'll check that, thanks! You see this is the type of thing newbies will not know about when going to this mod. Most of us will be familiar with classic Colonization where gold is king. You will get questions from newbies if they've not already been answered.
    I forget the benefits of 'elections' but choosing it seems more like a RPing decision since my colonies will truly become independent.

    How did you stack up on units from Europe without triggering the king to increase his REF?
     
  12. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    @PPanda0421 :

    Please slow down a little bit. ;)

    You are not our "customer" - we are not a "company" - nobody in the team is a paid "developer" (for this mod).
    (I am a modder and I have my private life and job as well.)

    This is not a professional project - we do this in our spare time for free.
    Nobody is paying us anyhting to develop this mod and publish it to community.

    And yes, I have been a professional software developer myself many years ago.
    (Some of the other team members are software developers or have been software developers as well.)

    But modding is something totally different - there are no obligations because we modders do it just for fun.

    I am not delibarately ignoring new people and their questions.
    And I never ignore cries for help if normal community members can not help because they simply could not know.

    Sometimes I see a post and know that others can answer it (e.g. community members) and thus want to let them answer.
    (But this community is still small because it is a realy old game.)

    Sometimes questions are also too long to answer shortly. Posting many questions at once increases chances of not being answered directly.
    (I am currently really busy trying to get the current release ready to be published.)

    I sometimes also just do not see posts immediately or am distracted (e.g. by more urgent posts).
    (This is not the only site where we discuss things - we e.g. also have an internal team and supporter chat.)

    I am currently the only active modder on this project and thus I need to set priorities for what I spend my time.
    (Most other team members are sick or busy in private life - which is also related to Covid 19.)

    Edit:

    Nightinggale
    has returned (from being sick) and is currently looking into the "desynchs in Multiplayer".
    But that is really challenging and takes almost all of his time for modding.
    Thus at the moment he can not take properly care of community either.

    -----------

    Summary:

    It is simply a matter of time ...

    It is related to small team and small community size.
    It is also related to the current situation - which is not "normal status".
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  13. PPanda0421

    PPanda0421 Chieftain

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    Ok I admit I may have overreacted a little :). Yes I understand that y'all do this in your spare time and are not being paid for any of this work.
    So in short you're not obligated to do anything, including replying to questions.

    That being said you're updating the mod whenever you can right? Well I'm sure you want feedback to fix any issues we find.
    I asked questions about gameplay, some of which could be bugs. One could be a major bug possibly introduced by recent changes. I already
    said I installed 2.7.2 beta and I've only started the revolution in this version.

    Think about it from my point of view. What's the main point of Civ4Col? To gain independence from the King. In one of my questions, I killed the last
    land unit and still haven't won. Don't you think that should have at least raised some type of concern on your part? Especially when I wrote that
    I even killed the last naval unit? It took days to hear a reply for a possibly broken ENDGAME feature.

    No matter what new features you're adding (or testing you) should've at least thought about why a player cannot achieve victory for
    main OBJECTIVE of the game.

    Anyway lesson learned, if you ask one or more questions just wait a few days for a reply here :).
     
  14. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    2.7.2 beta is not recent for me. :)
    (That was the last release before I rejoined the team.)

    I consider it to be quite outdated already (about 4 months).
    (There were already 3 full new development branches in the mean time.)

    EDIT:
    We just published 2.8 - the new release. :)

    Exactly, the more questions you post at once, the more time it would take to answer. :thumbsup:
    Thus it might take longer until somebody is going to react.

    That has been reported about 15 times over the years. :)
    (Already in TAC and RaR.)

    Every time we checked (e.g. with Cheat Mode - to take over the "King-Player") we still found some land Unit walking around ...
    (Naval Units should not matter. But it is not only fighting Units. All Land Units matter)

    You could e.g. start Worlbuilder and thoroughly search the map for a remaining land Unit of the King. :dunno:

    No it did not raise concerns that the mod itself is broken because I know that several players achieved to win WOI in WTP.
    If I would go crazy every time a player believes something is broken because the mod does not react like he thinks it should, I would stop modding. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  15. PPanda0421

    PPanda0421 Chieftain

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    I'll shutup now. Onward to 2.8! :)

    PS - That's why I asked the question(s)...for clarification if it's broken or not. I didn't know that several players have already won WOI in WTP 2.7.2 beta. I'm only going off on what I'm seeing, so any timely replies would have been helpful. Anyways, I'll be more patient from now on considering
    this is a very small community. Also, thanks for all the work you guys have done. RAR and WTP have been very enjoyable thus far! :)
     
  16. Swarbs

    Swarbs Emperor

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    I believe it also occurs in vanilla, although much less frequently as the game is generally smaller in terms of numbers of colonists. As the King AI is set to a maximum war footing, it will create new military units with any resources it can find.

    So I believe you can deal with this issue, to a certain extent, by moving all military resources - blades, guns, horses etc out of a colony that is about to be captured. That way the king can't create a scout or dragoon and send them halfway across the map where they are difficult to find.

    Does seem like a bit of a bug with Civ4Col in general. I remember in the original Col you only had to kill the REF, any other units hanging around didn't count once the main land forces went down.
     
  17. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    It is not a bug. ;)
    And yes, it was already like that in Civ4Col - it is not mod related.

    Not everything new players do not expect or understand is necessarily wrong.
    It is simply something new they need to learn and get used to ...

    Some things players might not like and might indeed be changed to improve gameplay.
    But these things are not bugs either, they are simply "improvement requests" ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  18. Swarbs

    Swarbs Emperor

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    I suppose that depends on your viewpoint. One man's bug is another man's feature ;)

    I meant with reference to the original 1994 Colonization - in that game I remember you only had to kill the REF forces and recapture your colonies. If the King made a scout or soldier, or even moved a colonist out of a colony like it frequently did, those units didn't have to be killed to win the WoI.

    That system made the final win a lot less frustrating as you wouldn't need to hunt down a couple of units that made no difference to the overall outcome, hence I'd class the need to do that in the new game as being a bit of a bug.
     
  19. lethiel

    lethiel Streaming Col at https://www.twitch.tv/lethiel01

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    This statement is wrong. It's not a matter of viewpoint.

    From Wikipedia:
    A software bug is an error, flaw or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways.

    A feature you don't like or understand cannot and should not be called a bug.
     
  20. Swarbs

    Swarbs Emperor

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    It is definitely a matter of viewpoint. Unexpected can only be defined with reference to expectations, which are inherently subjective based on the viewpoint of the individual forming the expectations. If my expectations are different to yours, then something you expect to be normal may not be something I expect to be normal.

    'Bug' is recognised by pretty much everyone in the industry as a subjective term at this point. German researchers even did a study of over 500 reported bugs in code and found that, from their point of view, 1/3 of them weren't even bugs, thus proving the subjective nature of expectations around coding.

    But enough off topic for a WTP thread ;)
     

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