[WTP] Quick questions

[raystuttgart]

I still want to write a brand new "Trade Screen" (actually the entire diplomacy screen) ...

Sounds like investing lots of effort to replace working things we have.

Yes, Trade and Diplomacy Screen have lots of limitations - but currently they mostly work as they should and look quite pretty.
Completely rewriting Trade and Diplomacy Screen will bind lots of our capacity because we will definitely need to fix bugs (in first versions) and do lot of improvements until it is again "as good as what we already had".

Our capacity is really limitted currently and thus we should consider wisely how we use it.
I would really prefer WTP to implement new features and focus on important improvements and fixes and on other small "low hanging fruits".

 

[XSamatan]

There is usually no need to mess with such detailled settings, unless you feel that price recovery does not work correctly.

I stumbled upon this feature after the yield "Trade Good" kept on increasing in Europe.

Usually I try to sell every village near my starting position one batch of "Trade Goods", yet the price increases to fast to it being profitable enough. I'm usually playing on epic speed, is this function (the decrease) adjusted to longer game speeds?

Thank you ray for the detailed answer and your ongoing commitment to improving Civ4Col!

Beste Grüße
XSamatan

 

[ConjurerDragon]

No, not really.
The condition is inverted.

It is basically a demand vs. supply rule.
(It is a "hidden" price recovery mechanism.)

If the value is >0, the prices will decrease again over time. (Because it will increase the amounts sold -> prices in Europe will decrease over time)
If the value is <0, the prices will increase again over time. (Because it will decrease the amounts sold -> prices in Europe will increase over time)

<0 : this is intended for goods that are (usually) sold a lot to balance them back to "original prices" if Player does not sell anymore.
>0 : this is intended for goods that are (usually) bought a lot to balance them back to "original prices" if Player does not buy anymore.

So depending on these 2 factors the setting should be made:
(basically, how fast do you want to recover the prices and is it import or export case)

• import or export
  
• high value or low value

For some "high value produced goods" the prices will recover faster if you do not sell anymore.
For some "low value raw goods" the prices will recover slower if you do not sell anymore.

There is usually no need to mess with such detailled settings, unless you feel that price recovery does not work correctly.
(A lot of such settings were added in RaR by the way, but they are really meant for fine tuning details of balancing.)

Remarks:

The feature using it tries to simulate a realistic market behaviour with European demand/supply and Colonial demand/supply.
(It tries to connect European Market with Colonial market to a "global market".)

There are other settings involved in this general concept of a "global market" as well.
e.g. <iPriceCorrectionPercent> that connects all European Markets (England, France, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, ...)

Edit:

I just discovered that considering actual gameplay some settings needed to be changed (e.g. Barley which you will most likely never import from Europe).

@XSamatan
Thanks for your post.

Perhaps stupid questions but does the european demand value take into account that the population in Europe rises over the decades and so prices should not simply ping-pong up and down, according to deliveries to Europe, between two fixed values but the values rise, too?

And at the start of the game, when player and AI have not yet delivered anything to Europe - how can prices sink in that time when there is only demand but no american supply?

Hi Gnomercy,
here is the link to the currently published beta (2.7.2 beta 1 - it still has a lot of text bugs.)
...
However it does not contain all the fixes, improvements and additions we implemented in the last 2 months.

If you look here (our release overview) you will see that we are currently preparing the new upcoming release (2.7.3)
However we have discovered a small issue with our new special charcters (encoding) and want to fix that first.
Thus currently community is not yet allowed to download it (because it is still a Draft).

Summary:
You can of course download and play the beta release 2.7.2 beta 1 now. Other than a few minor annoyances it is playable.
But if you wait a few more days (maybe until the weekend) we might finally have published the full release 2.7.3.

Is this weekend still the planned releasedate for 2.7.3? Because I’m itching to try a new game with all those issues gone that were fixed and could be patient for a few more days. If it’s much longer I’d rather start a new game right now

 

[raystuttgart]

Is this weekend still the planned releasedate for 2.7.3?

To be honest, I personally do not know.

We still have a bug in our new Text and Translation System.
(It seems to depend on the install directory because not all of us can reproduce the bug.)

Nightinggale is working on it but I currently do not know the status.
Since he coded the system he is also the only one who really understands it and can thus fix it.
He also was sick last weekend and could thus not work much on it. And when we retested we found the current bug ...

He more or less recoded the Text System so support modern UTF8 character sets.
(It was a lot of effort and caused a lot of issues we found by testing and Nightingale had to fix.)

Basically it is supposed to get rid of the need to encode special characters for us modders.
Another positive aspect is, that it is compatible with an GUI-XML-Editor Nightinggale created for us modders.
Also it is supposed to make it easier for us in the future to support e.g. Russian.

It is a cool thing for us modders but players usually would not notice that it exists - when it is working correctly again.
When it is broken though - like it is currently - player will notice because texts will be messed up.

Nightinggale is also the only one who can draft and publish our releases in GitHub.
(He is the Admin of our GitHub space.)

Summary:
Nightinggale will most likely answer those questions, when he is online again.

 

[raystuttgart]

... how can prices sink in that time when there is only demand but no american supply?

The price system also has some random factors.
(It is not totally static.)

 

[Mr. ZorG]

We have already spoken with Nigtinggale on the encoding problem. I can do the translation in the xls-file, and after solving this problem, transfer the already translated text to the game.
In my opinion, you should not postpone the release because of this. although, of course, it's up to you, the team.

 

[raystuttgart]

We have already spoken with Nigtinggale on the encoding problem.

I did not see any further discussion in one of our team chats.
I personally last discussed the issue briefly with Nightinggale on Tuesday in a direct chat.

... you should not postpone the release because of this.

The current bug is not directly about the Russian translations (and Gamefont) support to my knowledge.
It is about City Names, Ship Names and General Names with special characters (e.g. of French Colonies or Spanish Colonies).
(Those entries are not in an XML for texts, they are in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml.)

It seems to be related to folders that the new Text and Translation System checks and thus indirectly also to installation directories of the mod.
In my installation it now works, but in the installation of Nightinggale he reported to have this issue.
(Most likely simply because we use different ways for placing the mod folder.)

If there really is a 50:50 chance that special characters of City Names, Ship Names and General Names are broken, we should not release before it is fixed.
And if it takes a couple of more weeks, then it takes some more weeks. It is still better than getting bug reports about broken texts all the time.

Once the bug is fixed, we can of course release.
But hurrying a release, that we know has such a bug, will not really help us.
(From the past I e.g. know that non-encoded special characters in City Names can break Map Saves.)

The only one who really knows the current status is Nightinggale.
He is the only one who can give a competent answer.

 

[Mr. ZorG]

we talked on Wednesday)

The current bug is not directly about the Russian translations to my knowledge.
It is about City Names, Ship Names and General Names with special characters (e.g. in French.)...

I didn’t know that if so, then of course you should not rush.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

...
It seems to be related to folders that the new Text and Translation System checks and thus indirectly also to installation directories of the mod.
In my installation it now works, but in the installation of Nightinggale he reported to have this issue.
(Most likely simply because we use different ways for placing the mod folder.)

If there really is a 50:50 chance that special characters of City Names, Ship Names and General Names are broken, we should not release before it is fixed.
And if it takes a couple of more weeks, then it takes some more weeks. It is still better than getting bug reports about broken texts all the time.

Once the bug is fixed, we can of course release.
But hurrying a release, that we know has such a bug, will not really help us.
(From the past I e.g. know that non-encoded special characters in City Names can break Map Saves.)

The only one who really knows the current status is Nightinggale.
He is the only one who can give a competent answer.

Well, then @Nightinggale - will we see a release 2.7.3 this weekend? Or if that error you encountered but Ray not should be tested more - perhaps an improved beta from the current 2.7.2 beta 1 to beta 2 so that more people could look if that error happens for them too?

 

[raystuttgart]

I understand that you are all eagerly waiting for the Release 2.7.3.
(I am too by the way, because I want to start implementing some features again.)

And we are really deeply sorry that we (or better I) kept announcing it several times.
But every time we thought we had discovered and fixed all issues with the current Text and Translation System, we found a new issue when properly testing again ...

Pushing out the release even though we know it has this bug will only lead to dissatisfaction, complaints and bug reports.
Yes, chances are 50:50 that the bug will occur for a player. (Depending if a player would install the mod like I do or as Nightinggale does.)

It is reproducable on Nightinggale's installation. I have no reason to doubt that.
Before the current version there was another bug that only occured on my installation.

Once both of us positively check that the issue does not occur anymore and there are also no other issues considering the system, we will release.
(Then we should be pretty save, that we fixed all major issues with it.)

Building up pressure will not solve the issue or speed up its resolution.

**** happens, but we promise that we will learn our lesson from it.

A) We will most likely be more careful with changing deep core systems in general.
B) We will most likely be more careful merging such changes with the "current release" branch, before we did better internal testing.
C) We (especially myself) will stop announcing public releases hastily before we are really confident that there are no more major hidden issues.

Summary:
We have a bug and we can reproduce it. Thus it should be possible to fix.
We will simply try to do our best. But please understand that building up pressure does not help.
We are sorry that our release got delayed so long. And trust me, it is frustrating for us as well.

 

[Nightinggale]

If there really is a 50:50 chance that special characters of City Names, Ship Names and General Names are broken, we should not release before it is fixed.

I know precisely how to fix this and according to the plan it should be have been fixed by now. However me catching the corona virus wasn't part of the plan. I'm doing fine, relatively speaking, but it has resulted in me being tired and not as focused as I would like. I am however aiming at a weekend release, but time will tell if I manage to follow the plan this time.

 

[raystuttgart]

However me catching the corona virus wasn't part of the plan. I'm doing fine, relatively speaking, but it has resulted in me being tired and not as focused as I would like.

If you are still sick, then relax.
Do not worry about the release.

**** happens.

to community:
Sorry again for announcing the release hastily.

 

[devolution]

@Nightinggale Hang in there buddy, both our nations are going through difficult times!. I'll be working from home the next couple of weeks and will avoid any contact with fellow (physical ) humans. Hopefully we can all contribute to halting the spread of this terrror by acting decisively.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

A question about leader traits,
e.g. Johan Risingh has industrious and pioneer that both give a 10% chance to learn by hard work or Mem de Sa who has two bonuses (-50 and -10) to buy land cheaper from natives

Do those numbers add up, so that Risingh gives a +20% chance to learn by hard work or
add up in 10% + 10% = 11%?

Or are the lower percentage advantages lost ingame, as it sounded when someone wrote about numbers being cut off a while ago and the advantage being lost if its not at least 1,0?

 

[raystuttgart]

Yes, all these percentages add up.
And no, they are not lost - unless there is a bug in coding.

 

[raystuttgart]

I will play as soon as the beta version is released and write an AAR for WTP dissemination.

The next version we will release will not be a Beta Release.
It will be an Official Release.

Actually I am currently not even sure anymore if we will publish only an Improvement Release. (Improvements and Bugfixes, no new Features)
Looking at the current state and speed of development we might also directly publish a Full Release. (Including all we did.)

But of course - whichever variant we might release - we should first fix the bug in the new Text and Translation System.
(This might take a while though because of team members currently being sick.)

@team:
Let us please clarify this again. There has simply happened so much considering implemenation.
It will probably make little sense anymore to publish an "Improvement Release" and then 2 weeks later publish a "Full Release".
I am completely aware that the "Full Release" will not be Savegame compatible, but we cannot change that anyways ...

 

[raystuttgart]

Hi guys,

first of all, it is great to see that we have gotten much more attention from community again.
Discussions and brainstorming with community were a lot of fun.

It is also great, that some old guys like e.g. Schmiddie have returned as well and help us.
Without his graphics, we could not realize the features in the same quality.

One or two supporters have also shown up and started helping from time to time.
e.g. Raubwuerger created the base feature / functionality for "Merge Treasures" which helped to create the feature a lot faster.

It is also really cool that other old modders are also even thinking about modding on their own project again.
So maybe we can get the modding community going a bit again - even if it is not as big as it used to be a few years ago.

What is not so great though:

• The core team is still really small and WTP is incredibly big.
• Until now we failed to convince further new modders to join us and start modding on WTP.
• The current situation with Covid 19 makes modding even more difficult. Some team members are sick themselves.
  
• I expected that more modders would like to implement new features - until now I am still the only one.
• Nobody in the team (including myself) is really motivated to improve texts or translations or do regular quality control.
• Lost of great half implemented improvements are lying around but were not yet integrated and finished.
• Community expectations seem to have reached somewhat unrealistic levels again.

We are at the moment in a "crisis mode" as well. We currently lack ressources, skills and sometimes also motivation.
Thus nobody can currently predict or promise how long we would be able and motivated to continue like this.

The last months - especially the last weeks - have been quite exhausting and sometimes a bit frustrating (mostly in real life).
I believe that the complete team needs or wants to slow down, recover a bit and focus more on real life.

Consequences:

• Some of the accepted and promissed features will still be finished the next weeks.
  
• Once we have fixed the annoying bug in Text / Translation System, we will publish the promissed Improvement Release.
• After that we will also soon publish a Full Feature Release (which contains everything already finished but is not savegame compatible).
  
• Once we published, I will go into a "relaxed mode" again - I will still stay a team member but my own modding activity will be heavily reduced.
  
• The project WTP will definitely continue though. I have no doubt about that. We will simply slow down considering features again.

Summary:

WTP will continue. So do not worry about that.
We still have a lot of great ideas, improvements and concepts lying around, but it will all take its time ...

Feature Development will simply progress a bit slower and more relaxed.
(Bugfixes and other small improvements should continue as usual though.)

Thanks a lot for your patience and understanding.

 

[MeagPig44]

I don't know if this is a bug or if this is happening because I've never worked with a mod before/am new to RAR. I cannot move any of my units within my settlements (meaning I can't change their professions). Whereas I'm used to clicking and dragging, let's say, a colonist from some woods to some fish (changing his profession from a lumberjack to a fisherman), the units are completely invisible. Am I missing something?

 

[raystuttgart]

It is definitely not a general bug.
This would have been reported way more often - and months ago already - otherwise.

Does this always happen?
Or does it only happen if you do something specifically?

I currently suspect that it is an installation issue somehow though.
(But I currently can not explain it.)

Since it also says that Population is "1" it can not be the "abandon colony feature" either.
(You would also have gotten a pop-up and the Unit would be visible on the map Screen - with pressing "B"-button you could have the Unit rejoin the City and it would not get abandoned.)

Also - and this is important to analyze and understand - do you play RaR or WTP?
(This is WTP forum, which is the successor of RaR - and yes, most of us were team members of RaR as well.)

To analyze:
Please post the complete installation path of the mod-folder (including its "Assets"-folder).
That way we can at least be sure that you put the mod into the correct directory and that there are no Non-ASCI-characters in the installation path.

@team:
Does anybody of you have an explation for this?

 

[MeagPig44]

I think this in an issue on my end- I've never installed anything like this before. I believe that this is We the People- I found it on a steam comment under a Civ IV Colonization screen shot. It linked to a github site. Here's a screenshot of where I put the mod (title "We the People" - it was originally named "v2.7.1-beta5").

EDIT: tag @raystuttgart