[Xtended] Things, Typos, & Bugs...

[LonelyLurker]

This save is locking up every time I end the turn:

 

[Honor]

Dear Esvath : 2 questions re-Aos-Si
how do one get Larcinsidh ? I'm in Eternal court... and cannot build him.

true green fairie is worse than "normal" green fairie : 20% in eternal woods double movement in eternal wood is worse than 20% in forest/ancientforest double movement in forest/ancient forest... as it narrows the bonus to inside country... while you already had similar bonus for inside country using "green fairie".
I propose: "true green fairie" 40% str in Forest / Ancient Forest / Jungle / Deep Jungle / Eternal Wood + double mvt in those.
(green fairie is 20% str in F, AF, double mvt in F, AF)
(to be noted: all other color--> true color fairie shift doubles the bonus.... true white fairie get 2ice damage instead of 1...etc)

the eternal court is hard for cities : lower food intake than summer court and not fallow like winter. (but that's manageable.... it's the corolary for increased commerce... but that's hard on hill heavy cities.. with 0 food on hills instead of 1. : while 3-2 is a "manageable" variation, 1-0 is a big variation. The 1 food was important: with 3 deers that's 1.9F.

I cannot figure out how to get Larincidhe the hero, either. Eternal court is a downgrade in terms of food, but still the Aos Si are stronger than most other civs, so I think that's okay. I agree with the True Green Fairie comment.

 

[Calavente]

@ Honor : I finally got to have larcinsidh :
it's a project that you can use once you have 4 immortal fae lords. (I did it with 4 eternal lords) and could then build the project.
as a side note, eternal fruits seems to be farm-ressources that upgrade to eternal fruit when in eternal woods. (but you cannot spawn them, even with a GM: GM cannot find any ressource in eternal court !!).

However there is a MAJOR BUG with Larcinsidh ... he starts with 0 str.
accordingly he is not considered a combat unit.
and thus, when building it, even when he should have 5str (from eternal fruit affinity) and 10+str from nature mana affinity, he still has No str (not even 0/0) (like a worker).
Either it can be simply corrected by adding 1str to him or there is a need to edit a "non-combat" tag in the xml.

re-eternal court : I agree, with a bit of playing, the downsides are limited and balnaced with the upside... so no I finally have no issue with it.

re-true green fairie: it becomes a major problem for my game :
"true green fairie" is a limited version of "green fairie" : even if it looses the +10str in forest, at least please haver it keep double movement in forest/ancient forest...
I say that it's a major problem as most of my fairies are becoming "true green fairies" upon building.


question: how is the "color fairie " determined ? where is the code ? are there determining parameters ?


My pet peeve: is there a possibility to change / add Melee class in the attack discipline ?

Spoiler :

- I only find use for Champion "20str + chance of combat thingy promotion".
- the second best is "immunity to FS, +3FS"... however FS are normally an archery thing, and It's always tricky to chose that one as there are too many counters that nullify FS... (shadow promotions...etc).(maybe that one could open up exotic weapons ?)
- the "20% of having second chance" is sad : an early-possible second chance seems cool... but not enough.
- barbarian seemed interesting but : 20% resistance to magic damages is unworthy of a class... even when it applies to many damage types : it is only useful as a passive against spells... for other usages, having 20%str is better as it applies to the whole attack and is not limited to the "magical" part. I see two ways to way to make it good: 50% reduction to magical damage (so it has an impact, but different from the other one), or make it could open to secondary promotions on "magic damage" or (like the poison master series) : increased effect of promotions applying magical damage?(might be hard to code) or give +1lightning then +1fire damage or magic immunity.
- Berserker : too limited due to the loss of ownership in frenzied state : I'd rather have this being: usual base + 33% chance to get a different frenzied promotion : -10%heal, +20%attack, -20%defence, -2FS, +1mvt, can attack multiple times/turn, no xp limitation (otherwise it can cumulate with blitz and reduce xp to almost nothing)

in fact, I encountered the problem when power-upgrading a melee unit very far : eternal fae lord, and needing to get the second class promotion... I couldn't find a useful class and I chose "immunity to FS" by default, as the less-worse.
In fact, atm, immunity to FS and barbarian are great classes... for a defense discipline: reduction of magical damages/spells are good for defending units even if 20% is not much unless you are defending against spells !!, and FS are also very good for defending units to defend against hords of smaller units

what I would see in "attack" as classes:
- a movement class : either re-vamp berserk to give a chance for +1mvt, or create a specific promotion : different options : "Light troop : +1FS +15%withdrawal, +1mvt / or : Trooper: 50%chance to get "forward charge" : +30%damage, +1mvt, removed after combat, gives the "fatigued" promotion : +10%str, +1mvt cost.
- a magical warrior : maybe revamp barbarian ? and give a few magical str.
- an assault unit : +30% against cities, +20% against fortified units (is-that possible) ? or : ignore building defense ? or ignore tile defense (forest/hill..) or ignore cultural defense ? or "can build battering ram" ?
- leadership : combat aura (I think it should come here instead of being in the vengeance discipline).

 

[esvath]

However there is a MAJOR BUG with Larcinsidh ... he starts with 0 str.

Good catch! I am changing Larincsidhe's str for future version.

a possibility to change / add Melee class in the attack discipline ?

I'll change to the following:
- Warlord: +20% chance for Second Chance (as usual)
- Berserker: reduced the chance to get Enraged from combat to 10%.
- Barbarian: bonus increased to 20% resist magic, 20% damage type resist.
- Commander: gives combat aura -> moved to Offense.
- Blade of Fury: +1 movement, +1 first strike -> moved to Vengeance.
- Myrmidon: +30% city attack, +30% city defense (req Vengeance)

 

[dommain]

Is there a reason why the XP level for military great person not working?

So, GG XP generation is not a bug then?

 

[Honor]

I never produced a great general via XP playing MoM. Great Commanders are created the same way as other great people. It is pretty hard to do since you can only use buildings for the GPP accumulation. Sephi or esvath must have removed GGs via XP because of the Battle Captains mechanic that belongs to one of the civs (don't remember which one).

 

[Guru-Meditation]

I never produced a great general via XP playing MoM. Great Commanders are created the same way as other great people. It is pretty hard to do since you can only use buildings for the GPP accumulation. Sephi or esvath must have removed GGs via XP because of the Battle Captains mechanic that belongs to one of the civs (don't remember which one).

Wasn't it switched to a stateform? The one under citystates on the most left colums in the state form tab.

 

[Calavente]

Thanks Esvath for taking my remarks into consideration

I still have issues with Warlord (20% chance of a "second chance") and barbarian
Barbarian : I realised yesterday evening, while playing, the reason why it bugs me out : is a toned-down "mithril guard" : in the current setting, it's a class that's half as strong as another classe (or even less) : mithril guard is 20% against ALL elements and poison (not holy/unholy) + 50% spell resistance !
in the new propositions you make, barbarian will be slightly better with "20% against all elements and poison +holy / unholy, 20% spell resistance/resist magic" but that's still 80% identical to Mithril Guard, while worse on the spell defense side.
in that case : why have 2 different classes for something that gives roughly the same effects ? It would be clearer to have Mithril guard opened to both disciplines...

Warlords: this class bugs me out : it is a "full class" that is made obsolet by another promotion (available to all) and that is not even half as interesting. This is the only case IMO where it happens. especially as mid-game it's quite frequent to get "hero" which is much more powerful and especially which opens the sub-promotions heroic- attack/defense.

This "early class that becomes obsolet" could be a good construction to enable "cannon-fodder" mechanics and have a cheaper version of a big promotion for sacrificial units that are not supposed to earn one day the "normal promotion". However, Warlord (second chance) is a promotion for "survability" : you aim to have your unit survive and gain xp... and one day earn "hero" (for the heroic att/def)... and then you have on your arms a unit with a class that doesn't bring anymore any benefit... the opportunity cost becomes huge, and that unit becomes a drag when compared to their neighbourly units that got "champion" or another class.

It was argued that "warlord" enable to have a unit like a "mini-hero"...
However that is not really the case :
It is true that Heros (or local legend), born with the Hero promotion, take advantage of the second chance promotion to get into risky fights and gain much xp... but Warlord cannot give "mini-heros" ... for Three reasons :

• the heros/local legend get "hero" from start... and is FREE, while warlord is only for units that you already have raised carfully to level 5...
• the second reason is that Heros/local legend are often better units than what you have at that time and can thus dominate the combat of that period without much risks...
• and the third reason is that Heros can get a class that really affects their combat capability : at level 5, Heros see a big increase in their combat capability on top of already having the second chance promotion.

in conclusion (for my personal experience)
I don't take it for the early units as you really need 20%str advantage;
late game, I have much more +2 techs than the AI so the "second chance" promotion is almost useless
then for me, the only occasional use of "warlord" at the moment is early-mid game when I can raise units at 40xp (or about that) quickly (free xp+small xp farming), and quickly output units with warlord (and second chance), but even then it's only when I need some "kiting" melee units (because you don't have much mounted units or arcane) : like the old "Horse archers" : softening the big bad ennemies. However, those "kiting" units will not be the one that get much xp as I won't want to risk them when "second chance" is spent-up
In conclusion, I rarely build only 1 of those every 5-10 games. And usually it's barely worth it (In those case I can't say that a unit with 20%more str or 3FS wouldn't have brought a similar result).

Spoiler propositions :

Proposition : change blade of fury back to offence, and open Mithril guard to both Defense and Vengeance.

• Barbarian Open Mithril Guard to both Defense and Vengeance and revamp Barbarian
• Barbarian : allow exotic armor/weapons + immunity to poison
• Barbarian : allow exotic armor/weapons +20% resistance lightning/fire/frost damage + open choices to non-cumulative promotions: +2lightning str OR +3Fire str, -50%frost resistance (total -30%) OR +3Frost str -50%fire resistance (total -30%)
• Barbarian : allow exotic armor/weapons + cause collateral damage, 20%chance to gain "Bestial Roar" from combat: cause fear, removed after use
• Barbarian : allow exotic armor/weapons + immune to cultural defense + auto-razing of improvement
• Barbarian : allow exotic armor/weapons + 10%str, can "taunt"

...

Warlord:
I have a few propositions to help "fluff-out" Warlord as I think that not much is needed to make it worthwhile

• Warlord : 20% chances of second chance, +1xp/combat
• Warlord : 20% chances of second chance, +increase xp aura
• Warlord : 20% chances of second chance, +?? great general points ? (or GC ?)(I don't know how many would be "too much" : 1 + lvl ?) or "(3+ lvl/5)% chances of combat generating a GC": at level 10, you have 1/20 chances of getting a GC per combat) ?
• Warlord : 20% chances of second chance, 20% chance that combat gives promotion "double strike": +1mvt, blitz, removed after combat (no xp reduction: in effect, it only allows to attack a second time in the same turn, if movement and health permit it ; if it's used on the next turn, the "blitz" effect is removed by the first combat)
• Warlord : 20% chances of second chance, 20% chances of gaining "Charmismatic leader" from combat: Allows "recruit" : recrute X units in city (removes "charismatic leader" after use) and "battle cry" : removes stunned/dizzy/confused/concussived hit from allied stack (removes "charismatic leader" after use) / and/or gives aura "resist to fear/ immune to fear".

...Etc

 

[Psychodad]

Second Chance is much more powerfull than you think. If possible a unit will alway retreat to the south-east tile. If a unit retreats in defensiv combat it will get a garantied promotion for free. So positioning them next to babarian lairs with save retreat spot will give you a nice bunch of free promotions. For example guerillia, poison resistance, and bonus vs. archery for all your warlords if you have a hill next to goblin archers. Do this only in your own territory for not attracting Beasts or save the retreat spot with some strong units.

 

[Sezneg]

Found an Illians specific bug.

Completing the Draw does not allow you to move on to the ascension. It doesn't stay active, it appears to cast as a one off but needs to be currently active to ascend. Also appeared that divine essence guild tech was "lost" after using the draw - went from having it to having it red out and no mouseover text to tell me how much culture it would require.

 

[>TMC<]

I'm having a little problem with some leaders. Usually i like to play "Unrestricted Leaders" because i like some leader traits better than other in some civilizations. Like Allissol (Dural leader) with the Kuriotates or Sidar. The problem currently is that, even if Allissol don't have an Agnostic trait, i can't adopt/convert to a religion. I made some testing with the other Dural leaders and Ophelia has the same problem (but she was usually Agnostic in other versions) and surprisingly Dannmos don't have this limitation. This Agnostic trait don't show on the Civilization flag inside the game and nowhere else. I tried the same testing with Grigori leaders and all of them have the same limitation. The Agnostic trait don't show anywhere too. I thought it was something that could be passing the civilization trait to the leader and tried some testing with leaders with some civilization trait. I tried with Svartalfar leaders and the different civilization don't get the Sinister trait. I tried with another normally Agnostic civilization, the Jotnar. All his leaders were ok to adopt religion on diferent civilizations and don't pass the Giantkin trait either.

This is kinda weird because the last time i played (on version 4.1) i wasn't encountering this difficult. I have a very limited mod ability (xml and py) and tried to look into those filies to see if i could try to change this, but i can't seem to find it anywhere. And the strangest thing is that Dannmos (the Dural leader) is not being affected by this problem.

Modifying some traits in the \Assets\Modules\NormalModules\Expansion\Civs\Dural\DURAL_CIV4LeaderHeadInfos seems to work properly in game. I just can't find where the agnosticism is comming from.

 

[esvath]

Found an Illians specific bug.

Completing the Draw does not allow you to move on to the ascension. It doesn't stay active, it appears to cast as a one off but needs to be currently active to ascend. Also appeared that divine essence guild tech was "lost" after using the draw - went from having it to having it red out and no mouseover text to tell me how much culture it would require.

I'll check on this.

I'm having a little problem with some leaders.

So the problematic leaders are Allisol and Ophelia? I'll check.

 

[>TMC<]

So the problematic leaders are Allisol and Ophelia? I'll check.

Ophelia is Agnostic on her own, so i think she is not the problem. And all Grigori leaders have the same problem as Allisol too.

 

[esvath]

Ophelia is Agnostic on her own, so i think she is not the problem. And all Grigori leaders have the same problem as Allisol too.

Ah, I found the code that makes Allisol and Grigori leaders unable to adopt religion despite their traits. I have set their religious weights (in XBARBARIAN_CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml) into -100 for all religions. It is intended. The real bug is, Danmos's religious weights have not been set into -100.

I can set them all to 0 religion weight, thus allowing them to adopt religion in non-Agnostic civs but I hesitate to do so because:
1) lore. Cassiel won't adopt religion ever. Other leaders are open to negotiation.
2) their traits are rather powerful taking into account of them unable to adopt religion.


Thoughts?

 

[Guru-Meditation]

On the one hand, if the leader traits were balanced around the idea of compensating for the loss of religious boni, but then they get the ability to go for a religion anyway, it will make them significantly stronger then other leaders.

On the other hand you can simply say that going for the unrestricted leaders optional option, balance will simply be somewhat off. So people who'd like to play this way can do it.
They just have to accept the impaced balance, or the bad combos that might arise with some Civ/Leader-combos.

 

[Vital Brasil]

About melee units, is it possible to make barbarian class to have an offensive utility too ? Maybe reduce their damage type resist to 10 to compensate.
I have always seen barbarians as ferocious, unstoppable fighters, so i think it would be fun and different from anything we have in the game to give them a bleed effect.

This bleed would have a chance to pass to enemies in the same tile in combat like other effects (stunned, poisoned...), would work like the enflamed effect (but would do physical damage instead), and would last until the target get full healed.

I'd love to see a melee class suited for some nice collateral damage.

Also, loved some of Calavent ideas, specially the taunt effect and the auto-razing of improvements.

About the unrestricted leaders, i think they should be balanced around "normal" gameplay.

Now, i would like to report some bugs i stumbled upon in my last game:

- Flail of Ages enflamed effect is not passing to enemies in combat. I destroyed 2 civilizations with an army fully equipped with it and my enemies never got the enflamed effect.
- If i equip an offhand blade or a tower shield i can still equip a two handed weapon, but i won't gain the two handed effect and i think thats intended. But, on the other hand, if i equip a two handed weapon first and later equip a tower shield/offhand blade, ill keep the two handed effect (and the two handed weapon).
- If i equip an offhand blade or a tower shield, as i said above, i can still equip a two handed weapon, but without the two handed effect. But if i drop the shield/offhand blade for another misc item (like cloak of nature), i won't get the two handed effect.
- Nature's revolt is not making animals stronger nor enraging them. Only the peace effect is working
- Animals do not attack unprotected workers and settlers.
- This one, iirc, was fixed a few updates ago, but somehow it came back: I can't dispel some effects like the confused effect (the spell isnt clickable). The defiled effect also is not being dispelled, but on this case, the dispel magic is clickable (but not working).
- Portals are not being placed in mapscripts that used to have them, like MoM_Erebus and MoM_Lakes, is this intended ?
- Drain marshes only allow me to drain moors, but i can't drain swamps. Is this intended ?

Also i'd like to know whats the point of the sacrifice population spell (which arcane units gain for free at lvl 20) being avaliable to everyone, despite of alignment ?

Makes no sense being able to cast this spell in cities when you play non AV civilizations, especially when you are good or neutral. So, could this spell be restricted to AV civilizations only ?

 

[esvath]

- Flail of Ages enflamed effect is not passing to enemies in combat. I destroyed 2 civilizations with an army fully equipped with it and my enemies never got the enflamed effect.

Enflamed from Flame Attack weapon property has 50% chance.

- If i equip an offhand blade or a tower shield i can still equip a two handed weapon, but i won't gain the two handed effect and i think thats intended. But, on the other hand, if i equip a two handed weapon first and later equip a tower shield/offhand blade, ill keep the two handed effect (and the two handed weapon).
- If i equip an offhand blade or a tower shield, as i said above, i can still equip a two handed weapon, but without the two handed effect. But if i drop the shield/offhand blade for another misc item (like cloak of nature), i won't get the two handed effect.

Two Handed Weapon property will block Shield and Offhand Blade in future version (now it only blocks Shield).

- Nature's revolt is not making animals stronger nor enraging them. Only the peace effect is working

Not sure what cause this. Maybe some code in the DLL. I'll check.

- Animals do not attack unprotected workers and settlers.

I think that is intended by Sephi long time ago. Animals in general are less vicious than Barbarians.

- This one, iirc, was fixed a few updates ago, but somehow it came back: I can't dispel some effects like the confused effect (the spell isnt clickable). The defiled effect also is not being dispelled, but on this case, the dispel magic is clickable (but not working).

Fixed again.

- Portals are not being placed in mapscripts that used to have them, like MoM_Erebus and MoM_Lakes, is this intended ?

I did not change any map scripts so they should be there if the map scripts used to generate them.

- Drain marshes only allow me to drain moors, but i can't drain swamps. Is this intended ?

Yes. Workers can only transform one type of terrain into another type.

About melee units, is it possible to make barbarian class to have an offensive utility too ? Maybe reduce their damage type resist to 10 to compensate.
I have always seen barbarians as ferocious, unstoppable fighters, so i think it would be fun and different from anything we have in the game to give them a bleed effect.

This bleed would have a chance to pass to enemies in the same tile in combat like other effects (stunned, poisoned...), would work like the enflamed effect (but would do physical damage instead), and would last until the target get full healed.

Bleeding is a brilliant idea! I adopted it for Berserker and Weaponmaster classes and Axe weapons.

For Barbarian, I envision them as "anti-magic" heroes. The "ferocious, unstoppable fighters" image fits Berserker more.

 

[esvath]

On the one hand, if the leader traits were balanced around the idea of compensating for the loss of religious boni, but then they get the ability to go for a religion anyway, it will make them significantly stronger then other leaders.

On the other hand you can simply say that going for the unrestricted leaders optional option, balance will simply be somewhat off. So people who'd like to play this way can do it.
They just have to accept the impaced balance, or the bad combos that might arise with some Civ/Leader-combos.

I think for now I'll just let these leaders unable to adopt religion, even when played in Unrestriced Leader option.

 

[Vital Brasil]

Enflamed from Flame Attack weapon property has 50% chance.

Just tested with flaming sword too, the enflamed effect is not passing through combat. I Fought many battles using Flail of Ages and Flaming Sword, in none of them my enemies got this effect.

I think that is intended by Sephi long time ago. Animals in general are less vicious than Barbarians.

Well, if this is intended, i think thats a bad design choice, but thats just my opinion.

I think he once said he wanted to make the world feel more dangerous and wild, like a dark fantasy mod should be. This design choice leads to bizarre situations, like when you need to conect 2 distant cities, but its better to leave the worker unprotected, than protected. I mean, i had a game where a sent a moroi to scout a worker, then a bear came and killed both; later i sent my worker alone and the bear just stood there.

Bleeding is a brilliant idea! I adopted it for Berserker and Weaponmaster classes and Axe weapons.

For Barbarian, I envision them as "anti-magic" heroes. The "ferocious, unstoppable fighters" image fits Berserker more.

That's just great ! Thanks for welcoming this idea.

But, would be too much asking to make not alive creatures immune to this effect ? For reality sake lol

 

[>TMC<]

On the one hand, if the leader traits were balanced around the idea of compensating for the loss of religious boni, but then they get the ability to go for a religion anyway, it will make them significantly stronger then other leaders.

On the other hand you can simply say that going for the unrestricted leaders optional option, balance will simply be somewhat off. So people who'd like to play this way can do it.
They just have to accept the impaced balance, or the bad combos that might arise with some Civ/Leader-combos.

I think for now I'll just let these leaders unable to adopt religion, even when played in Unrestriced Leader option.

Totally agree with both of you! It was only a doubt cause of some preference i myself have, not intending to change the lore or something. I wasn't finding where to change this back myself (as i usually do some changes of my own preference when i'm playing).