2020 Election Thread!!!!!!!!!

[Sommerswerd]

I'll spell it out. He's neither. He's just an ass covering desk jockey covering his ass.

Again... one more chance ... look at the bolded and give me a straight answer...

So assuming that I am right and Comey's plan all along was to get rid of Hillary and then Trump... is Comey an American hero or a villain? Also, I'd especially like to know the answer to this in your (J's) opinion. Hero of villain? ... again, operating under the assumptions I outlined.

You don't get to say "Well I think your assumptions are wrong so here' my non-answer/third option" as an excuse to duck the question and then claim that's an "answer". And I was certain that you would do exactly this, which is why I specifically included the bolded. Again... I get that you don't agree with my assumptions, duly noted. Now that you've got that off your chest, please assume, for sake of discussion, that my assumptions are correct and answer my question.

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

If your assumption is true Somers, I'd still say neither. Comey didn't want Hillary because of his own political affiliation. He didn't/doesn't want Trump for various reasons but probably mostly because he's not establishment GoP. GoP voters elected that whackjob because they liked what he said and gullibly believed it. He was their choice whether we agree with it or not. If Comey planned to undermine both from the start he's not a villain or the people's hero. He's the GoP establishment's hero.

 

[Sommerswerd]

If your assumption is true Somers, I'd still say neither. Comey didn't want Hillary because of his own political affiliation. He didn't/doesn't want Trump for various reasons but probably mostly because he's not establishment GoP. GoP voters elected that whackjob because they liked what he said and gullibly believed it. He was their choice whether we agree with it or not. If Comey planned to undermine both from the start he's not a villain or the people's hero. He's the GoP establishment's hero.

Now that's an answer.

Now going with your analysis, the question becomes... then why isn't FOX celebrating him as their hero, thanking him for riding them of both Hillary and Trump and paving the way to the more preferable Pence? Has FOX gotten swept up so much by Trump that they no longer belong to the GOP, but instead are loyal to Trump? Or is there more to it than Comey being a GOP tool?

 

[Lexicus]

Has FOX gotten swept up so much by Trump that they no longer belong to the GOP, but instead are loyal to Trump?

Well, that 80% of Republicans approve of Trump suggest that Trump-lovin' is where Fox's bread is buttered.

 

[Sommerswerd]

So if FOX has abandoned the GOP establishment where do they go? Sulk in the corner and just try to wait it out?

 

[Lexicus]

So if FOX has abandoned the GOP establishment where do they go? Sulk in the corner and just try to wait it out?

Is "they" the GOP establishment?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yes, that is to say the GOP establishment voters.

EDIT: But now that you mention it... what about the GOP establishment politicians and pundits? Where do they go?

 

[Lexicus]

Yes, that is to say the GOP establishment voters.

EDIT: But now that you mention it... what about the GOP establishment politicians and pundits? Where do they go?

Democratic Party? Wait out the Trump storm, assuming the Trump storm is a temporary phenomenon? I'd like to welcome them into the Democratic fold but the Democrats are too right-wing as things are so I just don't know.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Democratic Party? Wait out the Trump storm, assuming the Trump storm is a temporary phenomenon? I'd like to welcome them into the Democratic fold but the Democrats are too right-wing as things are so I just don't know.

See that's my concern as well. I feel like this misguided expectation was at the core of the selection of Kaine as VP... that the Democrats could lure in moderate GOP voters disaffected by Trump. But all it accomplished was alienating and disillusioning the liberal, young, and minority voters, with little or no gains among the GOP voters they were targeting.

 

[onejayhawk]

Again... one more chance ... look at the bolded and give me a straight answer... You don't get to say "Well I think your assumptions are wrong so here' my non-answer/third option" as an excuse to duck the question and then claim that's an "answer". And I was certain that you would do exactly this, which is why I specifically included the bolded. Again... I get that you don't agree with my assumptions, duly noted. Now that you've got that off your chest, please assume, for sake of discussion, that my assumptions are correct and answer my question.

Fine. Assuming, by right of debate fiat, that Comey was doing something I don't think he was doing, because he is the sort of person I do not think he is, then I'm not sure.
Mercenaries can be either hero or villain. That said, I think you have it backwards. Trump was trying to save Clinton, under pressure from the administration.

gaffe [ɡaf]
NOUN

1. an unintentional act or remark causing embarrassment to its originator; a blunder:
2. in Washington: speaking the truth unintentionally, esp. about your superiors.

The mastermind villain is behind the scene. Comey was a stooge. Let's go with slapstick. Comey is Shemp. He saves the day while trying to steal the silver.

One thing that was very clear from Comey's testimony is that Trump scared the s__t out of him. The question is, why? I lean to the view that Trump would not play any game to which Comey knew the rules. In any event, Comey was not seeking to help Trump.

J

 

[onejayhawk]

Democratic Party? Wait out the Trump storm, assuming the Trump storm is a temporary phenomenon? I'd like to welcome them into the Democratic fold but the Democrats are too right-wing as things are so I just don't know.

You may get your wish. Given the way the Democrats are going after puffball-and-nothing in front of the news cameras, they may alienate everyone in the middle. Then they will be a small party of truly liberal people.

J

 

[Sommerswerd]

Fine. Assuming, by right of debate fiat, that Comey was doing something I don't think he was doing, because he is the sort of person I do not think he is, then I'm not sure.

OK that's clear, thanks. So turning to what you do seem sure about... taking into account this:

He's just an ass covering desk jockey covering his ass.

and this:

The mastermind villain is behind the scene. Comey was a stooge. Let's go with slapstick. Comey is Shemp. He saves the day while trying to steal the silver. One thing that was very clear from Comey's testimony is that Trump scared the s__t out of him. The question is, why? I lean to the view that Trump would not play any game to which Comey knew the rules. In any event, Comey was not seeking to help Trump.

Your position seems to add up to the following... Comey is a patsy. Comey's agenda is manipulating the situation with the goal of protecting and aggrandizing himself. Meanwhile, there is an unknown mastermind behind the scenes, that is aware of Comey's predilections, and is using that knowledge to manipulate Comey into... what?

Destroying Hillary and Trump... right? So what you are saying really, is that you buy my theory that Comey is an intentional tool of Hillary and Trump's destruction... but you just think its someone else's idea, not Comey's... right?

So that brings us right back around full circle to the original question... Is that unknown shadowy mastermind behind Hillary and Trump's destruction a hero or villain...to you? It seems like you're saying villain, because...well, you said "mastermind villain". Is that right?

 

[onejayhawk]

I used the word stooge. That said, Comey was and is no friend of Trump.

The behind the scenes person is someone with enough pull to use AG Lynch as a messenger. We have also seen traces in the use of NSA and CIA to conduct un-warranted surveillance, through unmasking. Again, someone near the top, though not necessarily the President. There is no doubt that person(s) is a villain(s). One hopes he/she/they are now in private life.

J

 

[Sommerswerd]

I used the word stooge. That said, Comey was and is no friend of Trump.

The behind the scenes person is someone with enough pull to use AG Lynch as a messenger. We have also seen traces in the use of NSA and CIA to conduct un-warranted surveillance, through unmasking. Again, someone near the top, though not necessarily the President. There is no doubt that person(s) is a villain(s). One hopes he/she/they are now in private life.

I see watcha did there... the problem is that your villain can't be Clinton, no matter how bad you want it to be because Comey kneecaped Hillary far worse than he's done to Trump... but nice try anyway, pretty clever how you did that. Not mentioning Clinton by name was a nice touch.

 

[onejayhawk]

I see watcha did there... the problem is that your villain can't be Clinton, no matter how bad you want it to be because Comey kneecaped Hillary far worse than he's done to Trump... but nice try anyway, pretty clever how you did that. Not mentioning Clinton by name was a nice touch.

It's not Clinton. It has to be high up in Obama's orbit, if not Obama himself. That alone precludes Clinton Inc. Also, not as smooth as Clinton.

I agree Comey did Trump little, if any, damage, but a lot to himself. Trump tweeted "total vindication". He's not far wrong. It's summed up in first line of a Boston Herald story, "James Comey is a legend in his own mind."

J

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

Oh when I say GOP establishment I don't mean voters. I mean the actual establishment politicians. Remember how during the campaign there was a list of 80+ Republicans that denounced Trump? Names like Romney, both Bush presidents plus Jeb, Graham, McCain etc. They're the ones that think his abrasiveness and unpredictability makes their agenda harder to push forward.

 

[Perfection]

I really hope Nancy Pelosi gets relected in 2020

 

[onejayhawk]

I see watcha did there... the problem is that your villain can't be Clinton, no matter how bad you want it to be because Comey kneecaped Hillary far worse than he's done to Trump... but nice try anyway, pretty clever how you did that. Not mentioning Clinton by name was a nice touch.

In the same vein, look at this. It comes out around 300 pages, but the little I have skimmed is scathing. Eric Holder was kowtowing to someone not named Clinton.
https://oversight.house.gov/hearing/operation-fast-and-furious-reckless-decisions-tragic-outcomes/

J

 

[Sommerswerd]

So you're saying that he is the mastermind behind Trump's win/Hillary's defeat, and the subsequent investigation into the Russia connection, including using FBI director Comey as a stooge to setup the whole thing?

I don't know J... that seems to be stepping deep into tin-foil hattery... maybe I'm wrong... Can you at least, summarize the fast-and-furious program connection to the Comey/Russia/Trump scandal you seem to be making?

 

[onejayhawk]

Mastermind is your term. We all knew that Obama was a Chicago machine politician. This is just the machine in action. The Clintons have a competing machine, but it's more obvious in its workings.

I will say that, for someone who claims to have served without scandals, the BOA is coming across as very slimy. Use of the IRS to harass, unwarranted surveillance using CIA and NSA data, pressure on the FBI Director from Justice. It stinks like last week's fish.

J