2020 Election Thread!!!!!!!!!

That was supposed to be plan A, but the establishment, Rubio, and The FOX mucked it up. The establishment, by putting splitting the loyalty with Jeb!, and then allowing too much pressure on Rubio to cave on immigration... which was supposed to be their golden ticket to the Hispanic vote. Rubio, by caving on immigration... once he did that, he was basically an empty suit/ empty vessel, which then created fertile ground for the damning Rubio-bot critique that Christie landed in such epic fashion. Finally, FOX hobbled the Rubio anointment, by tying the debate seeding to national poll rankings, basically ensuring Trump, as the most well known, would be a permanent fixture front and center.

The real question is whether Rubio recovers to fight another day.

Oh man, remember that FOX News primary debate that was nothing more than an extended attempt to bring down Trump, to the point they actually put the math up on the screen from his tax proposal and showed how ridiculous it was? We were all chumps, but the GOP establishment understood Trump even less than we did :lol:

Rubio seems like he has everything they could want in a presidential candidate, but the danger is that he really is as vapid as the Rubio-bot moment suggests. He also surrendered his integrity to fight in the muck with Trump. I'm sure he'll try again, but his national brand is in desperate need of rehabilitation.
 
Oh man, remember that FOX News primary debate that was nothing more than an extended attempt to bring down Trump, to the point they actually put the math up on the screen from his tax proposal and showed how ridiculous it was? We were all chumps, but the GOP establishment understood Trump even less than we did :lol:

Rubio seems like he has everything they could want in a presidential candidate, but the danger is that he really is as vapid as the Rubio-bot moment suggests. He also surrendered his integrity to fight in the muck with Trump. I'm sure he'll try again, but his national brand is in desperate need of rehabilitation.
Rubio should have just switched parties. He'd have won easily as a Democrat, because he would have been able to shed all that ultra Conservative baggage that he clearly doesn't believe in, and just focus on what is important to him... immigration/path to citizenship, American Dream, etc.

As a Republican he is vapid, because he doesn't believe it. Jindal is the genuine article, he believes in absolute "assimilation" into conservative culture/ideology. Rubio is just trapped in the Republican party without the courage to get out. I wish he'd have found the stones to run as an independent when he dropped out of the 2016 race.
 
Won the primary, or the general?
Hmmm that's a good question Lex. When you parse it like that, it's tougher to answer, because it forces more specificity.

So, I'd say that if Rubio had switched parties early on, instead of caving on immigration, then he would have captured the Never-Hillary, Bernie enthusiasm. Sanders would have become a non-factor also ran, and Rubio would have straight-up Obama'd Hillary.

Now in the General, with the epic defeat of the great invincible Hillary in his sails, and all the goodwill he'd have from middle-class (white and blue collar) white guys for that, I think he would have had an easier time in the rust belt... especially with a "Hispanics love this country and we just want to work hard for the American Dream alongside you" narrative. Another thing he would have had going for him is a "first Hispanic" narrative, which I think would have been better for Hispanic turnout, which is typically abysmal, and has tons of room to grow. Another thing he would have done (like Obama) is created a clearer moral dilemma in voting against him. Putting aside party loyalty, it would have been a lot harder to justify outside of racial/ethnic prejudice. The bottom line is Rubio solves the likeability issue, and he's waaay too new to be susceptible to the "establishment" label. He's also way too new to have all the baked-in baggage that Hillary does.

So both... to answer your question. I think he wins both as a Democrat in 2016.
 
Also a direct attack against Trump's anti-mexico stance would have been interesting. But I'm not sure he'd have done as well as you think. In mid 2015 he still had his tea party credentials against him, and policy wise he wasn't better than Hillary. He'd have struggled in the primary and would have done marginally better than her in the general.
 
Also a direct attack against Trump's anti-mexico stance would have been interesting. But I'm not sure he'd have done as well as you think. In mid 2015 he still had his tea party credentials against him, and policy wise he wasn't better than Hillary. He'd have struggled in the primary and would have done marginally better than her in the general.
I think this past election showed how the bolded isn't as much of a factor as everyone thought. Also, Rubio is Cuban, so he wouldn't have been focusing on defending Mexico, so much as focusing on immigration in general.
 
Not in the democratic primary though
 
Bernie almost carried it by being left wing and by promising to tackle the issue of student loans. He got a wave of enthusiasm that might not have happened with Rubio there but it doesn't mean that the enthusiasm would have gone to Rubio. What you're saying is that if Rubio had done a great primary campaign with the democrats he would have won, but the campaign he did do wasn't great by any standard. Nothing indicates that he would have done a perfect run with the dems, especially when he would have had to face Sanders and Clinton's attacks.
 
But doesn't Rubio have anti-ACA votes on his record? Can't imagine that working in a Dem primary.
 
Hmmm that's a good question Lex. When you parse it like that, it's tougher to answer, because it forces more specificity.

So, I'd say that if Rubio had switched parties early on, instead of caving on immigration, then he would have captured the Never-Hillary, Bernie enthusiasm. Sanders would have become a non-factor also ran, and Rubio would have straight-up Obama'd Hillary.

Now in the General, with the epic defeat of the great invincible Hillary in his sails, and all the goodwill he'd have from middle-class (white and blue collar) white guys for that, I think he would have had an easier time in the rust belt... especially with a "Hispanics love this country and we just want to work hard for the American Dream alongside you" narrative. Another thing he would have had going for him is a "first Hispanic" narrative, which I think would have been better for Hispanic turnout, which is typically abysmal, and has tons of room to grow. Another thing he would have done (like Obama) is created a clearer moral dilemma in voting against him. Putting aside party loyalty, it would have been a lot harder to justify outside of racial/ethnic prejudice. The bottom line is Rubio solves the likeability issue, and he's waaay too new to be susceptible to the "establishment" label. He's also way too new to have all the baked-in baggage that Hillary does.

So both... to answer your question. I think he wins both as a Democrat in 2016.

I don't know whether you're doing this as a polemic/devil's advocate-type exercise but I just really don't think any of this is accurate. But I also can't really articulate an argument as to why I don't think so, with evidence.
 
Bernie almost carried it by being left wing and by promising to tackle the issue of student loans. He got a wave of enthusiasm that might not have happened with Rubio there but it doesn't mean that the enthusiasm would have gone to Rubio. What you're saying is that if Rubio had done a great primary campaign with the democrats he would have won, but the campaign he did do wasn't great by any standard. Nothing indicates that he would have done a perfect run with the dems, especially when he would have had to face Sanders and Clinton's attacks.
There is no question that Rubio failed to perform well in this campaign season. My totally unscientific speculation also has the weakness of being dependent on a bunch of what-ifs, to place it squarely in the realm of fantasy. I acknowledge this. However, speaking in those fantasy terms, I think a major factor that prevented Rubio from doing well was his abandonment of the strong immigration position he had staked out in opposition to his party. His being beholden to the Tea-Party Right, made this cave-in a necessity. He basically was at a crossroads where he had to abandon the Republicans to stay true to his core beliefs/identity, or he had to give up his soul to keep his Republican identity/constituency. He chose the latter and it hollowed him out. He basically went from rising star to empty suit and that I believe is why his campaign was milquetoast. He started as a Maverick, but then abandoned the main thing that made him Maverick'ey. He became a soulless... well... Rubiobot, ready for programming.
But doesn't Rubio have anti-ACA votes on his record? Can't imagine that working in a Dem primary.
Yeah but are we saying that being anti-ACA or pro ACA, or anti/pro anything for that matter was a non-starter for anyone this cycle? I mean Trump ran against the ACA, both guns-a-blazin and won. Hillary was pro ACA and lost. Bernie was anti Iraq War and lost, Hillary was pro and won, Trump was... Trumpy about it... and won. Issues didn't matter that much this cycle. My exercise in speculation is based on that baseline.
Which way do you mean that? Or, is it both?
My bad, the hyphen is confusing. I should have just said "Never Hillary'ers".
I don't know whether you're doing this as a polemic/devil's advocate-type exercise but I just really don't think any of this is accurate. But I also can't really articulate an argument as to why I don't think so, with evidence.
See above, it was genuine, but I get why you can't tie down a counter... its so far into the weeds in terms of fantasy and speculation that's its impossible to respond with hard evidence. Its just a fun thought exercise really.
 
Only flaw I see in the Rubio theory is that he'd be able to sway the never Clinton voters. Most of them disliked her because of the big corporate donors and corporate/wealthy friendly policies. Even Obama at least pretended to be progressive. Its partly why he had the support he did. After Bernie's success in the primary I'd be pretty surprised if another centrist pulls off a win in 2020 without massive support from super delegates and I'd hope that's a mistake Democrats don't make next time. If you took Sanders out of the equation maybe a Hispanic Rubio type might have had a shot but I think he'd have been laughed at and ignored just like Chaffey and O'Malley were.
 
This comment is epic Atomic # 26 (Iron) + Atomic #10 (Neon)

I'd come up with a more clever description but noble gasses don't combine with anything.
Interesting. You equate Hillary is wrong with Iron, which is confusing.

Equating Hillary as a hater with a noble gas, hence untouchable, makes more sense. It is a concept that can stand alone.

FYI Chemistry major for two years, did get the minor.

J
 
Interesting. You equate Hillary is wrong with Iron, which is confusing. Equating Hillary as a hater with a noble gas, hence untouchable, makes more sense. It is a concept that can stand alone.

FYI Chemistry major for two years, did get the minor.
I know, which is why I thought you would get it... guess not.
 
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