2020 US Election (Part One)

[Lemon Merchant]

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Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Zkribbler]

Elizabeth Warren has announced the forming an exploratory committee.

 

[Gori the Grey]

She'd be infinitely better than the present occupant of the White House, so I will happily support her if she emerges as the Democratic nominee, and the choice effectively comes down, as it will, to supporting that candidate or four more years of Trump.

 

[Kyriakos]

Isnt she like a crazy warmonger?
Why not zoidberg
Bern?

 

[Zkribbler]

Isnt she like a crazy warmonger?
Why not zoidberg
Bern?

She wants to cut the Pentagon's budget & pull out of Afghanistan.

 

[Tristan_C]

You keep mixing Mueller's assigned task with Hillary and the Clinton foundation.

Probably because of the composition of Mueller's team. It's hard to tell them apart.

• You think that there is a grand Clinton conspiracy to take over the government

This post wasn't addressed to me, but I will offer some remarks in the other fellow's absence. I am not fond of conspiracy theories. Instead, I believe in the tendency of similarly-situated individuals, acting of their own accord, to behave in a manner that could appear coordinated, without it actually being so. Speaking generally on this case: as east coast lawyers who have worked in Washington's bureaucracy or SDNY for many years, Mueller's team and the people working in the DOJ— these ghosts of both Obama's and Bush's government— will behave in a manner that has all the appearances of a "grand conspiracy," and can seem coordinated, without it actually being coordinated. As long as there is a unifying principle, the contempt for Trump, Mueller can sidestep and the DOJ will counter, and it will all simply be each person doing their job.

Looking at how the DOJ, Mueller, and the sympathetic media have operated over the past two years in the world's most gigantic opposition research project (which was launched to determine whether Trump did opposition research), their behavior would not have been any different had they somehow been under the control of the Clintons. They weren't. This is just how they acted. Because they are jackasses. Not much we can do about it except vote.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Elizabeth Warren has announced the forming an exploratory committee.

I think Warren made the same mistake Hillary did in 04'... she missed her window. She should have run in 2016, when she would have been a welcome Hillary alternative. This time around I don't know if she can get the needed votes in the suburbs of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

 

[onejayhawk]

I am liking Warren a lot less since she had the whole DNA fiasco. By itself, lying for monetary and political gain is bad enough, but it is past. She had a chance to own it and she went the other direction and became very snarky in the process. As a practical matter, she's too NE liberal to run a national campaign successfully.

The problem is that there is no one better in sight.

J

 

[Gori the Grey]

am liking Warren a lot less since she had the whole DNA fiasco

For showing Trump's boast to donate a million dollars to be an empty boast. We all really knew it was before that.

The problem is that there is no one better in sight.

Including the present occupant of the White House, of course.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Probably because of the composition of Mueller's team. It's hard to tell them apart.


This post wasn't addressed to me, but I will offer some remarks in the other fellow's absence. I am not fond of conspiracy theories. Instead, I believe in the tendency of similarly-situated individuals, acting of their own accord, to behave in a manner that could appear coordinated, without it actually being so. Speaking generally on this case: as east coast lawyers who have worked in Washington's bureaucracy or SDNY for many years, Mueller's team and the people working in the DOJ— these ghosts of both Obama's and Bush's government— will behave in a manner that has all the appearances of a "grand conspiracy," and can seem coordinated, without it actually being coordinated. As long as there is a unifying principle, the contempt for Trump, Mueller can sidestep and the DOJ will counter, and it will all simply be each person doing their job.

Looking at how the DOJ, Mueller, and the sympathetic media have operated over the past two years in the world's most gigantic opposition research project (which was launched to determine whether Trump did opposition research), their behavior would not have been any different had they somehow been under the control of the Clintons. They weren't. This is just how they acted. Because they are jackasses. Not much we can do about it except vote.

The alternate scenario is that they found enough incriminating evidence in 2016 to justify a full investigation. And certainly, there has been an enormous amount of criminal behavior found since Mueller was appointed. More and more of the Dossier is being found to be true and none has found to be false.

Trump didn't do opposition research. He has been an agent of Putin since the beginning. Soon we will know the details. Mueller certainly has been working faster than Ken Starr who only found out that bill lied about having sex with what's her name which wasn't why he was appointed. How many years did he investigate?

 

[Birdjaguar]

I am liking Warren a lot less since she had the whole DNA fiasco. By itself, lying for monetary and political gain is bad enough, but it is past. She had a chance to own it and she went the other direction and became very snarky in the process. As a practical matter, she's too NE liberal to run a national campaign successfully.

The problem is that there is no one better in sight.

J

Claiming some portion of Indian blood isn't quite claiming bone spurs to avoid being drafted.

 

[Berzerker]

Dems better go up against Trump with a centrist (w/o baggage), its a fight for the middle...The leftist with the best chance is Bernie and Hillary blocked him last time. He's got the persona of 'the working man', looks and sounds blue collar, and he's more or less pro-2nd Amendment.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Bernie is too old. Warren is borderline too old. Maybe put Bernie on the ticket as VP.

 

[Dekker]

Beto 2020

 

[Berzerker]

Claiming some portion of Indian blood isn't quite claiming bone spurs to avoid being drafted.

its worse...but I thought her DNA test said she has some (or a tiny bit of) Indian blood

The alternate scenario is that they found enough incriminating evidence in 2016 to justify a full investigation. And certainly, there has been an enormous amount of criminal behavior found since Mueller was appointed. More and more of the Dossier is being found to be true and none has found to be false.

Trump didn't do opposition research. He has been an agent of Putin since the beginning. Soon we will know the details. Mueller certainly has been working faster than Ken Starr who only found out that bill lied about having sex with what's her name which wasn't why he was appointed. How many years did he investigate?

Russians: Hey Donald, we want you to win and we have dirt on Hillary
Trump: we love it
Russians: We'll give it to wikileaks

Assuming thats a crime, has anyone been convicted?

I'd like to see the FBI look at Ollie North and the NRA for allegedly funneling Russian money into the election... I got put on the NRA's list of people to harass with membership applications. I bought a used car and it came with 3 free months of XM/Sirius radio and now they're stuffing my mailbox with their BS. I can let my recorder deal with these damn phone solicitors but I cant avoid the mail they keep sending me. And they undoubtedly get to write off the cost so I'm paying more in taxes for them to harass me. Sorry, should be in the random rants thread.

 

[Takhisis]

Assuming thats a crime, has anyone been convicted?

Well, Mr. Assange is still under political assylum granted to him by a Russian-aligned South American tinpot dictator, but at least one Russian agent whom I can remember by name (i.e. Maria Butina) has already plead guilty to some charges. I don't know at what stage of criminal proceedings they are right now.

 

[Tristan_C]

The alternate scenario is that they found enough incriminating evidence in 2016 to justify a full investigation. And certainly, there has been an enormous amount of criminal behavior found since Mueller was appointed. More and more of the Dossier is being found to be true and none has found to be false.

Trump didn't do opposition research. He has been an agent of Putin since the beginning. Soon we will know the details. Mueller certainly has been working faster than Ken Starr who only found out that bill lied about having sex with what's her name which wasn't why he was appointed. How many years did he investigate?

Poor Mr. Putin. For his own agent to kill the Iran Deal and screw him out of his 50 billions in nuclear "energy" contracts. Then, increase the US military budget and harangue NATO countries to follow. Then rally opposition in the EU to Nord Stream 2. Even an attempt to reconcile the US with Best Korea. Kill Russians in Syria. Trump makes a truly odd Russian agent. Most planks in his foreign policy seem to have the side effect of isolating Russia somehow. It's almost as if the stuff coming out of his mouth ("America first") was sincere all along and his job at the GRU is just a smokescreen. We just can't trust liars like we used to, I guess.

For showing Trump's boast to donate a million dollars to be an empty boast. We all really knew it was before that.

I think Trump should have donated $1900. As a proportion of 1 million, this is how Native American she appears to be.

But on second thought, we can't make a good confidence interval on it, nor can we deduct more from her score based on the average. There is absolutely no data available on how much Native American genetics reside in the "average American." That fact is a bias of omission on the part of the fact checkers, by the way. She might not have any Cherokee in her at all. The closest basis for comparison Bustamonte obtained for this test was from people with indigenous Latin and South American genes.

Not donating anything was not smart. He could have donated $1900 on Warren's behalf, but also the remainder of $998,100 in his own name, to make up magnanimously for Warren's disgusting abuse of minority status. As it stands, he sort of dangled a million dollar donation in front of Native Americans and didn't follow through, and such a thing creates bad feelings even when there is no clear obligation.

 

[Birdjaguar]

That's an odd comparison.
You know, because of the purpose of the lies.
The Patriarchy never asked Ms. Warren (born '49) to go to Vietnam after all.

Remarkable contrast of mental imagery:
On the one hand one of "McNamara's Morons", in the mud, screaming in pain and fear, for his mother, about to die.
And on the other hand the college girl at a party going on about how her great-grandmother - or whoever - totes was a Cherokee princess.

Btw, not to needlessly bring the actual Vietnamese into this or anything:
Phan Thi Kim Phuc ended up in Canada. And they still have that statue.
Just saying.

My post was about the scaling of misleading efforts. Trump perpetuated his lie about his deferment to avoid going to war and Warren grasped at a faint connection to Indians to appear less NE waspish. Not even in the same ballpark.

 

[Berzerker]

My post was about the scaling of misleading efforts. Trump perpetuated his lie about his deferment to avoid going to war and Warren grasped at a faint connection to Indians to appear less NE waspish. Not even in the same ballpark.

I hadn't realized avoiding the Vietnam War was unethical

 

[Birdjaguar]

I hadn't realized avoiding the Vietnam War was unethical

He lied to avoid the draft. Your own ethics will determine whether or not you use that as a problem.