2020 US Election (Part One)

[MaryKB]

Bernie's the only candidate I dislike more than Biden, lol. Sorry, but he's completely off his rocker. I feel Warren's like a sane & professional version of Bernie.

My dream ticket is still Warren/Harris

Thanks all of you here ... at another forum I visit full of old white men, they're so in love with Joe.

 

[Zardnaar]

Bernie interviews well.

I think Biden still has the lead where it matters. Biden's just kinda there.

Beats me why Americans care to much about VP on the ticket. It's mostly ceremonial and isn't even a way to get trained to take over after a second term.

Seems a more thankless job than deputy PM.

Warrens my overall favorite, have doubts if she can win where it matters though. That's Bidens main asset apart from name recognition.

 

[Lexicus]

Bernie's the only candidate I dislike more than Biden, lol. Sorry, but he's completely off his rocker.

He is not remotely "off his rocker", I have no idea why you would say this.

 

[Socrates99]

Bernie's the only candidate I dislike more than Biden, lol. Sorry, but he's completely off his rocker. I feel Warren's like a sane & professional version of Bernie.

My dream ticket is still Warren/Harris

Thanks all of you here ... at another forum I visit full of old white men, they're so in love with Joe.

He gets clipped and nitpicked in an effort to paint him as crazy. It was very effective in 2016. The bits of him they'd show on the news made him look like the whacky wavy arms balloons outside of car dealerships. It's less effective now but some of it still holds over.

Try watching Bernie's Joe Rogan interview. He gets more time to calmly lay out policy and how itd be paid for. His bills are every bit as rational as Warren's. I like Warren. Don't get me wrong. I just wouldn't dismiss him as crazy. The last time we had a potus with an agenda like Bernie's he was elected for 4 terms.

 

[MaryKB]

He is not remotely "off his rocker", I have no idea why you would say this.

His ideas have like no sound basis in reality, I view him really as like a flip side of Donald Trump. Warren has similar ideas, but she has intelligent plans for how they can realistically be accomplished

Try watching Bernie's Joe Rogan interview.

Ughhh ... no thanks

 

[El_Machinae]

Ughhh ... no thanks

You should, because an incredible number of people you want to convince will be willing to watch Rogan. If you don't like long-form interviews, that's fine. But being able to recommend certain Rogan interviews to people that you want to convince might get traction.

I didn't like Bernie's Rogan interview, because I thought it was too shallow. I didn't get the impression that Sanders understood the underlying issues in wonkish way. Trump is showing that the President can get by being just a cheer-leader, but I want a little wonk in The Decider.

 

[Socrates99]

His ideas have like no sound basis in reality, I view him really as like a flip side of Donald Trump. Warren has similar ideas, but she has intelligent plans for how they can realistically be accomplished


Ughhh ... no thanks

lol I know Rogan's gotten a pretty bad rap. Understandable. I only watch the ones with guests I'm interested in. That one's pretty solid though. They stay on topic and it's less than half the length of the normal podcast because of Bernie's schedule. I just let it play while I game or do chores. Black Coffee did one too but it's only a half hour and they stay way less on topic.

 

[MaryKB]

In my experience, Joe Rogan's just about as bad as Jordan Petersen, I've no interest in watching anything from sexist jerks, he makes me sick.

 

[Socrates99]

In my experience, Joe Rogan's just about as bad as Jordan Petersen, I've no interest in watching anything from sexist jerks, he makes me sick.

Nah, it depends on his guests. He has a tendency, for better or worse, to just let guests steer everything. This means when he has a mysogenist on the show gets mysogenist. When he has Cornell West or some other intellectual on it's a pretty solid show. His best trait is also his worst trait. He doesn't push back very hard. That's why when you see him actually undermine a guest like he did with Dave Rubin and building codes or the post office its significant.

 

[Lexicus]

His ideas have like no sound basis in reality, I view him really as like a flip side of Donald Trump. Warren has similar ideas, but she has intelligent plans for how they can realistically be accomplished

Please go into any detail on this. Which, specifically, of Bernie's ideas have no sound basis in reality? What are Warren's intelligent plans for realistically accomplishing her similar policy ideas, and what are those policy ideas? Specifically, how are her plans better than Sanders'?

Warren's national industrial policy is an excellent idea but Bernie's policies for unions, student debt, medical debt, and the environment are better than anything I've seen from Warren's campaign in those areas.

In my experience, Joe Rogan's just about as bad as Jordan Petersen, I've no interest in watching anything from sexist jerks, he makes me sick.

I'm totally mystified by people who seem to think watching Joe Rogan is necessary to achieve some kind of higher wisdom

 

[MaryKB]

I don't remember specifically, but his plans just make no economic sense and would have like hundred-trillion dollar price tags. He routinely makes Donald's border wall thing look feasible, lol. Elizabeth's proposals I've read before are like along the same lines as his, but something that'd actually work (probably because she knows something about economics!) and so I feel she's a better leader. I feel sort of like Bernie's that over-the-top extremist kind who helps to get things started, but then when you realize he doesn't have any kind of real workable plan you go for someone more realistic, like Warren.

I'm sorry, I don't memorize things or keep a catalog of links or anything, I feel here the best we can do is discuss our feelings on these subjects based on our own private experiences and observations.

I'm totally mystified by people who seem to think watching Joe Rogan is necessary to achieve some kind of higher wisdom

I believe it's because he tells his audience exactly what they want to hear ... and his demographic seems like it's very limited to the same types who might be interested in Petersen.

 

[El_Machinae]

In my experience, Joe Rogan's just about as bad as Jordan Petersen, I've no interest in watching anything from sexist jerks, he makes me sick.

That's fair, we all need to find a balance. Other people watch him, and recommend him, which means that other people might take a recommendation from you to watch any specific episode.

It might be the only way to get some of the right-wing people that you know to watch an interview regarding any specific issue. It's a mechanism for outreach.

I'm very fond of Warren, and I will once again recommend that people watch her pre politician lectures. There was a point in time when she was just an extremely concerned professor, paid to look into the data in detail. A lot has changed, since she needs to do so much fundraising now

 

[Lexicus]

I don't remember specifically, but his plans just make no economic sense and would have like hundred-trillion dollar price tags. He routinely makes Donald's border wall thing look feasible, lol. Elizabeth's proposals I've read before are like along the same lines as his, but something that'd actually work (probably because she knows something about economics!) and so I feel she's a better leader. I feel sort of like Bernie's that over-the-top extremist kind who helps to get things started, but then when you realize he doesn't have any kind of real workable plan you go for someone more realistic, like Warren.

I'm sorry, I don't memorize things or keep a catalog of links or anything, I feel here the best we can do is discuss our feelings on these subjects based on our own private experiences and observations.

If you just feel that Warren would be better than Bernie, that's fine, as I said upthread I am basically indifferent between Warren and Sanders and I am sympathetic to arguments that Bernie is not necessarily the right standard-bearer for this stuff in the White House.

But I think it is very counterproductive to trash Bernie's policies and ideas as unworkable and compare them unfavorably to Trump's border wall given that whether Bernie wins or loses this primary, his ideas are clearly going to be a big part of the Democratic policy universe moving forward, and particularly given that your preferred candidate has adopted a bunch of those ideas and polices as her own.

 

[MaryKB]

His ideas as a starting point, what I'm saying is he doesn't have any realistic and feasible way to implement them.

 

[Lexicus]

His ideas as a starting point, what I'm saying is he doesn't have any realistic and feasible way to implement them.

And I asked what you think Warren's realistic and feasible ways to implement them are and you couldn't really give an answer. If you think his ideas are a good starting point it is odd to say he is the flip side of Donald Trump and that he makes Donald's border wall look feasible.

I don't mean to sound harsh but I have a lot of love for Bernie and it hurts me to see you compare him to Trump.

 

[Ironsided]

This is a really telling clip of what MSM has done to Bernie and more importantly in shielding the average American from his messages. I mean the Whoopi Goldberg part where she perfectly and seemingly unknowingly plays the part of your average American with a fleeting interest in politics - and they are the many. She thinks Andrew Yang came up with the idea that large corporations need to pay taxes? Imagine being Bernie – he is living in a surrealist painting called the American political system and its ignorant players. Bit like this thread to be fair.

 

[Kyriakos]

This is a really telling clip of what MSM has done to Bernie and more importantly in shielding the average American from his messages. I mean the Whoopi Goldberg part where she perfectly and seemingly unknowingly plays the part of your average American with a fleeting interest in politics - and they are the many. She thinks Andrew Yang came up with the idea that large corporations need to pay taxes? Imagine being Bernie – he is living in a surrealist painting called the American political system and its ignorant players. Bit like this thread to be fair.

Only in America

 

[MaryKB]

And I asked what you think Warren's realistic and feasible ways to implement them are and you couldn't really give an answer. If you think his ideas are a good starting point it is odd to say he is the flip side of Donald Trump and that he makes Donald's border wall look feasible.

I don't mean to sound harsh but I have a lot of love for Bernie and it hurts me to see you compare him to Trump.

I mean like Trump only in how his proposals are completely infeasible, I don't mean he's bad or anything.

But I really, really don't like Bernie lol!

 

[Socrates99]

I mean like Trump only in how his proposals are completely infeasible, I don't mean he's bad or anything.

But I really, really don't like Bernie lol!

but the question is, what's infeasible? Congress has increased the Pentagon budget twice for the same amount Bernie's free community college would cost. Nobody batted an eye.

Bernie's single payer plan costs 32 trillion over ten years, 4 trillion LESS than the 36 trillion our status quo costs and that's a Kato institute libertarian analysis. The vast majority of Americanswould pay far less for healthcare than they pay now.

Forgiving student loan debt is paid for by a stock market transaction tax of a half a percent. A tax which has the side bonus of discouraging microtransactions which contribute to market stability.

What's infeasible? I've heard this before but his plans are written to pay for themselves every bit as much as Warren's.

 

[El_Machinae]

Something to remember with economics, if we're able to do it now, then we can afford to do it in alternative ways. If people are currently getting Healthcare, then changing the mechanism of provision is not going to necessarily be unaffordable. The problem only kicks in once you were asking if you can drastically increase the supply of something. Then you don't know whether it's affordable until you actually look.