2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Birdjaguar]

Thinking about this election over there, as things stand... probably the only not-totally-disastrous possible scenario would be the democrats having a decisive win gaining control of congress, both houses, but Trump winning the presidency again. Though this will sound terrible to people having to live under an incompetent executive already, it's the only way you'll have something like an active opposition with a possible future, rather than a continuation of basically the same policies without opposition.

Utter nonsense. Any scenario with Trump in office will have worse long term consequences than any without him.

 

[Berzerker]

Now, on the issue of the Senate...it was also designed as a sop to the slave states, due to the population issue mentioned in the Madison quote here. The North's preponderance in voting-eligible population meant that it would inevitably dominate any legislature which was properly "democratic," ie, one which gave equal representation to people on a one-person, one-vote basis. The Senate meant that rather than having to outweigh the North massively in population so that they could hold their own in the House of Representatives with the right to vote restricted to a smaller subset of white men, all the slave states would need to do was ensure at minimum, an equal number of slave and free states to ensure that their power in the Senate could forever veto any Northern attempts to limit or abolish slavery.

Hmm... Maybe you're right about the Senate and slavery. I thought the idea of a bicameral house came from somewhere else and the smaller states wanted a Senate so they wouldn't be ignored. The Missouri Compromise and geography killed slavery, the American SW wasn't gonna support a slave based economy.

 

[Takhisis]

Reading the Constitution to understand the responsibilities of the modern US federal government is like reading the Magna Carta to get an understanding of the responsibilities of Parliament.

Mmmmkay, and what do we learn from this?

 

[Lexicus]

Mmmmkay, and what do we learn from this?

we need a new constitution

Hmm... Maybe you're right about the Senate and slavery. I thought the idea of a bicameral house came from somewhere else and the smaller states wanted a Senate so they wouldn't be ignored. The Missouri Compromise and geography killed slavery, the American SW wasn't gonna support a slave based economy.

The smaller states did want a Senate, and this was the most immediate issue that led to the bicameral compromise, but slavery was certainly at issue during the Convention, and obviously it was the free-state/slave-state divide, not a big-state/small-state divide, which came to dominate US politics only a few decades later.

 

[Takhisis]

we need a new constitution

OK, my post got eated because of bad software but nevertheless tl;dr I want to know why, because I'm pretty sure that (as an example) there's people who'd agree on the surface with ‘new constitution’ and they'd want Jim Crow laws to be brought back with constitutional status.

 

[Lexicus]

OK, my post got eated because of bad software but nevertheless tl;dr I want to know why, because I'm pretty sure that (as an example) there's people who'd agree on the surface with ‘new constitution’ and they'd want Jim Crow laws to be brought back with constitutional status.

well, obviously those people would have to lose some kind of war or open political conflict first

 

[Takhisis]

*sigh* This is why I cursed a bit when my post got, as we say, eated.
Why and what for, i.e. with to what ends and in which form would this new US constitution be made.

 

[Lexicus]

Why and what for, i.e. with to what ends and in which form would this new US constitution be made.

Why? Because we can't get rid of the Senate without the unanimous consent of the states, and we really need to get rid of the Senate. We also need to get rid of the electoral college, and we need to get rid of the Second Amendment, and we really need to make some changes to the 14th amendment to stop right-wing judges from using it to protect power, privilege, and social inequality, the opposite of its original purpose.

I also believe that we need to split up the positions of head of state and head of government, or at least some more constitutional amendments (maybe only one would be needed) which give legal force to the "norms" Trump has violated wrt Presidential deference to Congressional oversight and other issues.

Oh and we need to put the Voting Rights Act in a Constitutional Amendment to stop right-wing Supreme Court justices from destroying it.

I see no hope of accomplishing even a single on of these needed changes through the existing amendment process, ergo...

 

[Takhisis]

Go on, go on, so far we agree on problems that need resolving (not completely on the senate, I must say) but you're lacking a bit on the new constitution and how it would be.

 

[Lexicus]

Go on, go on, so far we agree on problems that need resolving (not completely on the senate, I must say) but you're lacking a bit on the new constitution and how it would be.

You can hardly expect me to draft a new US Constitution for you in a CFC post. I think what I've posted is adequate.

 

[Arwon]

This Axios interview video is incredibly bleak - https://twitter.com/axios/status/1290497186489348096

Hard to believe the world's most powerful democracy is staring down a possible constitutional crisis over... this.

 

[Kyriakos]

Trump has to go yesterday.

When will Biden announce his VP? Cause I think that this is the only thing which might (hopefully won't) allow Trump to stay.
Although it would have to be some major idiocy. Like Michelle Obama level (picking her).
I would detest Kamala as VP, but even that choice probably won't prevent Biden from winning.

 

[Lexicus]

This Axios interview video is incredibly bleak - https://twitter.com/axios/status/1290497186489348096

Hard to believe the world's most powerful democracy is staring down a possible constitutional crisis over... this.

Reminder that the man's approval among Republicans is 91% as of July 1-21, according to Gallup

 

[Cloud_Strife]

At this point it's clear that you cannot be a decent person and vote for Trump, let alone the GOP and all they're doing.

Republicans are an existential threat to their own country and at best we can only hope to ameliorate the harm they do; we need to shame these people and rub their inhumanity in their own faces, we need to abandon them to their own devices and stop talking or hanging around them because beyond actually physically fighting them all we can do is make them uncomfortable for their sociopathy.

 

[Kyriakos]

President Penguin.

[Trump] Testing too much can be bad.
[Interviewer] Who says that?
[Trump] Read the manuals.
[Interviewer] What manuals?
[Trump] Read the books.
[Interviewer] What books?

 

[r16]

just like ı reject any politician getting unjustified PR points with compared to Sith , a little more respect to the pinguins , will you all please ?

 

[Takhisis]

You can hardly expect me to draft a new US Constitution for you in a CFC post. I think what I've posted is adequate.

Hey, I know you're not Traitorfish. But just saying ‘do away with the senate’ is not the same as saying what you'd replace it with.

 

[Lexicus]

Replace it with 1) nothing or 2) a new house with national proportional representation rather than localized districts

 

[Takhisis]

President Penguin.

Oswald freaking Cobblepot!

 

[Berzerker]

a Biden voter preaching about decency