2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Gori the Grey]

You're right. And do you know how they signal the grounds of their moral condemnation? By using the word evil.

Don't know what's to prohibit Cutlass from doing so.

 

[Patine]

You're right. And do you know how they signal their source of their moral condemnation? By using the word evil.

I know that. But you obviously completely missed the point of what I was saying.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I don't think I did.

 

[Naskra]

Patine has a point. Y'all need a better conceptual framework for this election. Elections are marketing campaigns. Trump's re-election prospects depend on the answer to this question: Who buys a Pet Rock twice?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't think I did.

If you think you saw a point I'm gonna guess that you are probably wrong, just on statistics.

 

[Cutlass]

"Sucking," is a derisive of quality, not ethics, based on a crude jailhouse sexual metaphor. "Evil," is a theological, not political, term. Neither are truly applicable or appropriate in this discussion.

No. "Evil" is appropriate. Trumphadists are evil.

 

[Patine]

No. "Evil" is appropriate. Trumphadists are evil.

I have had enough of your binary, dehumanizing, absolutism. You have already used it about a month ago to deliver the loathsome and vile slander, lie, and insult of actually calling me a Fascist and than standing by it twice. Until you show even the smallest amount of sense of proportion and perspective, and the understanding that individual human being are being spoken of cavalierly and unthinkingly, in lump reference, like they're bee hives or AI CIv players, your opinions on ANY of the social sciences have no meaningful validity, and I will treat them as such, and call out every Goebbels-school demographic-based dehumanizing bloc statement you make. And, yes, I used the term "Goebbels-school," as in Joseph Goebbels, because that is EXACTLY the absolutist, dehumanizing, hard demographic thinking you espouse, along with McCarthyist witch-hunting theory. I hope you're proud of these influences on your beliefs and rhetoric.

 

[Socrates99]

At what point do we stop equivocating and just say they're functionally evil?

No. "Evil" is appropriate. Trumphadists are evil.

When they're not my family and friends. I know these people. They're not evil. Mostly just dumb sheep who don't know better. I always laugh when rightwing nutters call lefties sheeple because I've never seen a bigger group of goons who do everything based on belief in what their leaders tell them than GoP voters.

The fires are a great example. They're so bad my family in Idaho is affected right now. They posted pictures of fire climbing right over a mountain towards their town. The response? A lot of "thoughts and prayers" but no acknowledgement of why it's so bad. They're programmed, brainwashed sheeple.

 

[Lexicus]

When they're not my family and friends.

I guess this is the source of the disagreement after all. Some of these people were my family and friends. Not anymore.

 

[Socrates99]

I guess this is the source of the disagreement after all. Some of these people were my family and friends. Not anymore.

That's a bridge too far for me.

 

[onejayhawk]

This year there'll be an "I hate Trump" vote.

That's Biden's core support, basically all of his core support. Based on the 2018 election and other analysis, it figures about 30%-33% of the electorate.

If the organized crime cartels solidifed their turfs please explain how Donald Trump won the 2016 Republican primary.

By surprise.

There is no set of people who do tolerate-but-prefer Trump but aren't disgusting bestial Nazis.

This sort of unthinking bigotry is why you lose elections. It's a large group and many have voted Democrat in the past.

No, my question is specifically how did Trump win the nomination in the face of opposition from the entire Republican Establishment. If the parties are as all-powerful as you claim, with the ability to lock down the political process and prevent any challengers from emerging, why did the opposition of the entire institutional Republican Party fail to stop Trump from winning the nomination?

They tried, but it took to long to recognize the one candidate who could have managed it, Ted Cruz.

No, it just starts a new conversation you don't want to have which is: what do we actually do about living in a country where around 40% of the population want to, basically, destroy the country from the inside out?

That's a good question. Why do you support the 40% that is trying to destroy the country from the inside?

Patine has a point. Y'all need a better conceptual framework for this election. Elections are marketing campaigns. Trump's re-election prospects depend on the answer to this question: Who buys a Pet Rock twice?

The answer is someone with two children. Suburban moms are a big bloc of votes and they are very security oriented. The rioting is not selling.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Based on the 2018 election and other analysis, it figures about 30%-33% of the electorate.

As was stated recently in this thread, the last election was decided by just 26% of the electorate.

Suburban moms are a big bloc of votes and they are very security oriented. The rioting is not selling.

I think they're way more worried about their kids getting Covid. This is the very demographic I expect to break hard away from Trump.

 

[Patine]

I guess this is the source of the disagreement after all. Some of these people were my family and friends. Not anymore.

If family and deep friendship cannot survive political differences, was there ever a strong bond in the first. American society is being torn apart at the seems by this vicious, feral, and unthinking socio-political divide, not seem at this level since the 1850's - and political leaders, media pundits, and ideologues are guilty of fanning the flames, and these particular high-level cheerleaders are the real traitors - on both sides - to their nation and it's principles, seeking to slowly destroy it for short-term political, social, and economic gain. THEY are the enemy of the nation - the malignant shepherd of both flocks, not the rank-and-file "sheep."

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The answer is someone with two children. Suburban moms are a big bloc of votes and they are very security oriented. The rioting is not selling.

And you think suburban moms are so stupid that they will believe that a second Trump term is the solution? Is D'ump sitting on the solution, waiting to see if he gets reelected before he lets anyone in on it?

LOLOLOLOLOL

 

[El_Machinae]

That's a bridge too far for me.

Might depend on what someone means by "Trumphadist". We've excised a few people that have gone too far, but haven't excised the people that might be recoverable.

 

[Lexicus]

That's a bridge too far for me.

If family and deep friendship cannot survive political differences, was there ever a strong bond in the first. American society is being torn apart at the seems by this vicious, feral, and unthinking socio-political divide, not seem at this level since the 1850's - and political leaders, media pundits, and ideologues are guilty of fanning the flames, and these particular high-level cheerleaders are the real traitors - on both sides - to their nation and it's principles, seeking to slowly destroy it for short-term political, social, and economic gain. THEY are the enemy of the nation - the malignant shepherd of both flocks, not the rank-and-file "sheep."

From my perspective they have crossed the Moral Event Horizon.

the Moral Event Horizon refers to the first evil deed to prove a particular character to be irredeemably evil.

And it wasn't the mere fact of Trump being elected. It wasn't the total corruption, the Russia thing, the breaking of "norms", the complete stymying of Congressional oversight, the open racism, the cession of civil rights action by the federal government, the sabotage of Obamacare, the tax cut, or the "gutting" of multiple federal agencies e.g. the EPA. It was the concentration camps.

 

[Ajidica]

If family and deep friendship cannot survive political differences, was there ever a strong bond in the first. American society is being torn apart at the seems by this vicious, feral, and unthinking socio-political divide, not seem at this level since the 1850's - and political leaders, media pundits, and ideologues are guilty of fanning the flames, and these particular high-level cheerleaders are the real traitors - on both sides - to their nation and it's principles, seeking to slowly destroy it for short-term political, social, and economic gain. THEY are the enemy of the nation - the malignant shepherd of both flocks, not the rank-and-file "sheep."

I went to a Catholic college, and a number of my friends were/are fairly conservative in either economic or cultural senses. On many issues we agreed to not touch them with a ten-foot pole to maintain the friendship, but I did end friendship with two of them: one because he blatantly, intentionally, and repeatedly called Obama the n-word (heck, the entire 5 person group I was with at the time straight up cancelled him after that!); and the other because he said he had no problems with the horrific baby cages and family separations because 'they shouldn't break the law'.
Certain political or social beliefs are abhorrent enough any rational person should cut any friendship or social ties with them.

 

[innonimatu]

Odd to see two people here so worked up about imprisonment of illegal immigrants. Borders are impossible to defend without being nasty. That's an inescapable fact of life. You either police them, "cages" and all, or you let anyone determined to get in in.

The idea of abolishing border controls is as foolish as the idea of abolishing police. Unworkable and bound to create blowback. Think through the consequences of the moral causes you want to adopt...

 

[Zardnaar]

Odd to see two people here so worked up about imprisonment of illegal immigrants. Borders are impossible to defend without being nasty. That's an inescapable fact of life. You either police them, "cages" and all, or you let anyone determined to get in in.

The idea of abolishing border controls is as foolish as the idea of abolishing police. Unworkable and bound to create blowback. Think through the consequences of the moral causes you want to adopt...

I'm not opposed to arresting illegals. Like it or not visa systems exist.

Hell NZ will deport you if you are illegal (overstayers here).

We don't throw them into prison type cages. Hell we don't treat our actual criminals like that.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Odd to see two people here so worked up about imprisonment of illegal immigrants. Borders are impossible to defend without being nasty. That's an inescapable fact of life. You either police them, "cages" and all, or you let anyone determined to get in in.

The idea of abolishing border controls is as foolish as the idea of abolishing police. Unworkable and bound to create blowback. Think through the consequences of the moral causes you want to adopt...

If you think it is necessary to turn people away then turn them away. How does this require "being nasty"? I mean, I get that if you really just WANT to be nasty it presents an opportunity...