2020 US Election (Part Two)

[hobbsyoyo]

I think you all are being unimaginative when it comes to Trump's ability to do whatever he wants or at least mount an attempt. The EC may be set in the constitution, but are so are so many other things that's he ignored.

 

[Lexicus]

The fact that he hasn't quit yet to me indicates he wasn't deserving of my vote. There's no way he can win this now and efforts to win could endanger people.

So, just checking, you think Joe Biden is deserving of your vote despite telling people to go to the polls last Tuesday like everything was normal?

I can hardly think of a move better calculated to accelerate the winnowing of the very people (old people) most likely to vote for Joe Biden.

Anyway I consider the "coronavirus opportunity" has been likely missed by the Democrats thanks to their zombie ideology: a majority of Americans now approve of Trump's handling of the coronavirus.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

So, just checking, you think Joe Biden is deserving of your vote despite telling people to go to the polls last Tuesday like everything was normal?

In short: yes

Edit: And I don't blame Bernie for doing the same thing last week either. Not only has the virus situation evolved dramatically since then, so has the political situation. There's no way Bernie can win now and he needs to end it.

 

[Lexicus]

In short: yes

Okay, just making sure there was a double standard.

Edit: And I don't blame Bernie for doing the same thing last week either. Not only has the virus situation evolved dramatically since then,

Sorry but this is kinda BS. We knew where this was going last week and the elections should not have been held normally.

There's no way Bernie can win now and he needs to end it.

Well, the counterpoint is that Bernie's signature issues are now more important than ever. It may be worth his staying in if he can get those issues into Biden's platform so he can tell his supporters there are substantive reasons they should support Biden.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Sorry but this is kinda BS. We knew where this was going last week and the elections should not have been held normally.

I give all sides the benefit of the doubt up to now. I know you think I have a double standard, but if the situation was reversed, I'd be mad at Biden.

Well, the counterpoint is that Bernie's signature issues are now more important than ever. It may be worth his staying in if he can get those issues into Biden's platform so he can tell his supporters there are substantive reasons they should support Biden.

I recently posted that Biden needs to adopt much of Bernie's platform and the party needs to rally behind him in the Senate. There's no path for him to get the nomination at this point but they all need to capitalize on the moment to push his agenda.

 

[Patine]

I think you all are being unimaginative when it comes to Trump's ability to do whatever he wants or at least mount an attempt. The EC may be set in the constitution, but are so are so many other things that's he ignored.

I'm afraid I've not really seen this "commicbook supervillain,"-style ingenuity and mastermind capability you speak of. Whatever alternate universe you just stepped in from sounds a lot more terrifying and dystopian than the one here with a semi-coherent, puffed up, blustering, loudmouth, incompetent Donald Trump.

So, just checking, you think Joe Biden is deserving of your vote despite telling people to go to the polls last Tuesday like everything was normal?

I can hardly think of a move better calculated to accelerate the winnowing of the very people (old people) most likely to vote for Joe Biden.

Anyway I consider the "coronavirus opportunity" has been likely missed by the Democrats thanks to their zombie ideology: a majority of Americans now approve of Trump's handling of the coronavirus.

What are they approving of here, exactly? Trump's response is viewed as one of the sloppiest in the First World (not quite Spain or Italy sloppy, but one of the sloppiest). Many U.S. State Governors of both parties have much more laudable responses. What exactly is being praised?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So, just checking, you think Joe Biden is deserving of your vote despite telling people to go to the polls last Tuesday like everything was normal?

The only reason Sanders supporters are acting like he was against holding the elections (which he wasn't) is because putting them off would have delayed his losing. If he or they were actually concerned about the public health aspects he could have very easily said "since I am about to get blown out here I have decided to concede the race."

 

[innonimatu]

If you do not want to live through the proverbial interesting times, pray that Sanders will run. On his own if he must.

 

[Patine]

The only reason Sanders supporters are acting like he was against holding the elections (which he wasn't) is because putting them off would have delayed his losing. If he or they were actually concerned about the public health aspects he could have very easily said "since I am about to get blown out here I have decided to concede the race."

You claim to understand politics, but in truth you really don't - you just want to rant about how you think politics SHOULD be all the time, excoriating other people for disagreeing with you or pointing out the cold truths of the matter - just like you always insist on trying to shout me down for doing a lot of the time.

 

[Lexicus]

The only reason Sanders supporters are acting like he was against holding the elections (which he wasn't) is because putting them off would have delayed his losing. If he or they were actually concerned about the public health aspects he could have very easily said "since I am about to get blown out here I have decided to concede the race."

I don't know whether Sanders said anything in particular about the elections. I know for a fact that Joe tweeted people should go out and vote like normal.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If you do not want to live through the proverbial interesting times, pray that Sanders will run. On his own if he must.

LOL...and how exactly does that avoid "interesting times"? I know that you have this total hard on against pretty much every government form, but I'm pretty happy with having avoided anarchy and eating the neighbors in the wake of the financial crisis and I'm not looking forward to eating them in the wake of the corona virus.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't know whether Sanders said anything in particular about the elections. I know for a fact that Joe tweeted people should go out and vote like normal.

And since there were elections being held, indeed they should have.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You claim to understand politics, but in truth you really don't - you just want to rant about how you think politics SHOULD be all the time, excoriating other people for disagreeing with you or pointing out the cold truths of the matter - just like you always insist on trying to shout me down for doing a lot of the time.

Please justify any "cold truths" you included in this post. I don't think there are any, I think it was just a screaming fit screed at me, but in case I missed something...

 

[innonimatu]

LOL...and how exactly does that avoid "interesting times"? I know that you have this total hard on against pretty much every government form, but I'm pretty happy with having avoided anarchy and eating the neighbors in the wake of the financial crisis and I'm not looking forward to eating them in the wake of the corona virus.

Biden is a neoliberal, the kind who created the Trump presidency you hate so much - even conservatives agree that Trump was unexpected, not their own candidate. Bit Biden is irrelevant because he's too far gone to set policy: it's those hidden behind him who will rule if he wins. Those are the old Obama and Clinton crowd. Everyone remembers how they handled (mishandled) the previous crisis, which was far less serious than this one: fake promises of change. People could still survive while being betrayed. Now, they can't survive if they are treated the same way again. Chaos.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The date of the actual election is mandated by the constitution directly. Not that I think the GOP wouldn't be willing to buck that if they could get away with it, but I don't think they could get away with it. There have been times where I thought congress would buy into suspending elections since it also makes their seats permanent, but with a Dem majority in the house and perma-D'ump as the price to pay I really can't see this congress going along with it.

I looked and could not find the amendment that sets this and read somewhere it was just a law. Do you have a good source?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Biden is a neoliberal, the kind who created the Trump presidency you hate so much - even conservatives agree that Trump was unexpected, not their own candidate. Bit Biden is irrelevant because he's too far gone to set policy: it's those hidden behind him who will rule if he wins. Those are the old Obama and Clinton crowd. Everyone remembers how they handled (mishandled) the previous crisis, which was far less serious than this one: fake promises of change. People could still survive while being betrayed. Now, they can't survive if they are treated the same way again. Chaos.

Like I said, I didn't expect them to survive then, so I certainly won't argue against the idea that they might not now...but unlike you I credit Obama for the very surprising fact that we did survive...and for conditions that make my own survival this time look like a less unpleasant prospect if this is the descent into chaos.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I looked and could not find the amendment that sets this and read somewhere it was just a law. Do you have a good source?

Election day is just set by law...notably by a law that would have to be actively repealed, not just tacitly ignored. However the end of term is in the 20th amendment. That's the real hook, because no amount of "we are ignoring the legally mandated election day" can change the immutable constitutionally stated fact that Trump's term will end. "We didn't hold an election so I guess I'll just stay" cannot in any way be depicted as anything but a direct conflict with the constitution.

 

[Lexicus]

Election day is just set by law...notably by a law that would have to be actively repealed, not just tacitly ignored. However the end of term is in the 20th amendment. That's the real hook, because no amount of "we are ignoring the legally mandated election day" can change the immutable constitutionally stated fact that Trump's term will end. "We didn't hold an election so I guess I'll just stay" cannot in any way be depicted as a direct conflict with the constitution.

Trump has already managed to circumvent the Constitutional process of Senate confirmation of his appointees by adding "Acting", is it so hard to envision him doing something like this with the Presidency in the face of a genuine, threatening-social-collapse emergency?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Trump has already managed to circumvent the Constitutional process of Senate confirmation of his appointees by adding "Acting", is it so hard to envision him doing something like this with the Presidency in the face of a genuine, threatening-social-collapse emergency?

That required the complicity of the Senate. Avoiding election day would require the complicity of the Senate and the House. I don't foresee that happening.

 

[cardgame]

So if/when he just does it anyway, who stops him?