2020 US Election (Part Two)

[AmazonQueen]

I said that my list was my own, and my own opinion and viewpoint. I didn't claim it was "more objective and scholarly than the rest," or other such high-minded viewpoint. Your insistence to try and show my constant "arrogance and being on a high horse," all the time only betrays your own arrogance, and the fact that you refuse to refuse to dismount from your own high horse.

Your own words, "my more scholarly rather than semantic and polemic point-of-view"

 

[Ajidica]

Bernie: Medicare for all

Peolsi, Biden, Schumer: No

Trump: Medicare for all Covid-19

Peolsi, Biden, Schumer:

You sure this isn't like the time where he used some pandemic checks to cover up an attempt to give $500 billion to the Treasury Secretary to distribute as he wants with no reporting or oversight; or how the initial form of the pandemic checks were to be run through the tax system and not cover people who didn't pay income tax?

 

[Ironsided]

I’m not sure about anything when it comes to Trump. But if true that government will pay hospitals to treat covid-19 patients for free Trump will have outflanked the useless party on the one issue they cannot really afford to be outflanked on right now. They’ll lose hordes of voters. Hopefully that will energize them into doing something, anything more than suggest roll back the SALT cap to help their multimillionaire donors. A complete headless inverted redistribution of wealth to the already wealthy in a financial crisis where 10 million Americans have lost their jobs in the last two weeks alone. Took over six months to reach those numbers in the great depression.

 

[Patine]

Your own words, "my more scholarly rather than semantic and polemic point-of-view"

Yes, it was a relative, not absolute statement. And, it was still MY point-of-view. How many of the scholars and historians consulted in the "Time List of Worst Presidents," (whom I highly doubt make up the quorum to have their declared a "majority opinion," as you claimed as an absolute above) don't have such confidence in their opinions when they speak. For that matter, how many of the posters of this OT lack that degree of confidence when stating an opinion, and demure at every single possibility of being called out as error - and attitude you proclaimed as "arrogance and being on a high horse," when attacking me, despite the ubiquity of such an attitude for anyone who discusses these kinds of matter - an attitude, as I've said several and that just you've ignored completely - you are fully guilty of yourself. So, I'd advise you put away your big pile of stones as long as your house is glass - like everyone else's in the neighbourhood.

 

[Ajidica]

But if true that government will pay hospitals to treat covid-19 patients for free

Bolded the important part.

Donald Trump and the Republican Party have not once shown them to have any interest in helping 'the common man' in at least the last two decades for the Republican Party, and his entire life for Donald Trump. The pandemic checks were a result of the backlash to the GOP's plan to give basically free money to companies, and even once they were shamed into pandemic checks, they have consistently tried to structure them in a way to help as few people as possible while screwing over the most vulnerable.
I'd also be willing to bet any government support for treatment will occur later, probably with tax credits, rather than at point-of-sale, so if you can't afford treatment, sucks to be you. I'd also be willing to bet there would be no requirement for treatments to be provided outside of an emergency room setting, limiting it to people who can afford treatment. If you think Donald Trump and the GOP have a genuine interest in helping the most vulnerable, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[Lexicus]

Bolded the important part.

Donald Trump and the Republican Party have not once shown them to have any interest in helping 'the common man' in at least the last two decades for the Republican Party, and his entire life for Donald Trump. The pandemic checks were a result of the backlash to the GOP's plan to give basically free money to companies, and even once they were shamed into pandemic checks, they have consistently tried to structure them in a way to help as few people as possible while screwing over the most vulnerable.
I'd also be willing to bet any government support for treatment will occur later, probably with tax credits, rather than at point-of-sale, so if you can't afford treatment, sucks to be you. I'd also be willing to bet there would be no requirement for treatments to be provided outside of an emergency room setting, limiting it to people who can afford treatment. If you think Donald Trump and the GOP have a genuine interest in helping the most vulnerable, I have a bridge to sell you.

Trump has an interest in looking good and being popular though, so we'll see what happens. I hope you are correct.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Trump announced that the federal government will be paying hospitals to treat covid-19 patients for free. I'm leaning away from my "this pandemic assures the Democrats will win this year" position...

We'll have to see whether or not this actually happens or if it's just something he says. He frequently says things like 'we'll keep pre-existing conditions' and then his team votes to remove them. I put no stock in anything he says anymore.

 

[Ajidica]

Trump has an interest in looking good and being popular though, so we'll see what happens. I hope you are correct.

Unfortunately, it seems like the GOP has discovered the wonders of the Fidesz or PiS playbook.

 

[Lexicus]

We'll have to see whether or not this actually happens or if it's just something he says. He frequently says things like 'we'll keep pre-existing conditions' and then his team votes to remove them. I put no stock in anything he says anymore.

Indeed, this may just be yet another bit of Trump nonsense, but it's worrisome nonetheless. One of my few anchors of sanity at this point is the hope that covid-19 means big losses for the Republicans.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Unfortunately, it seems like the GOP has discovered the wonders of the Fidesz or PiS playbook.

What's that?

 

[Ajidica]

What's that?

Right-wing social authoritarianism with a healthy dosage of cronyism, backed up with a big show of welfare payments to 'deserving' people.
If I remember right, the PiS made a big show a couple years back about increasing welfare payments to the elderly -elder poverty is a problem in Poland- but at the same time used it as cover to cut welfare payments for the young unemployed.

Unfortunately, with most modern left-wing parties having an emaciated on-the-ground support and being seen as tainted due to support for neo-liberal policies, the Fidesz or PiS playbook is very hard to work against.
I mean, it is bad enough in Hungary the center-right and center-left parties engaged in a tactical alliance with Jobbik, Hungary's home-grown neo-Nazis, to try and limit Fidesz's majority. (Jobbik having had a falling out with Fidesz after Fidesz shut them out after coming to power.)

 

[Azem.Ocram]

If the Trump Administration actually pays for Covid19 treatment, Joe Biden won’t have a chance to win the general election. The DNC should nominate Bernie Sanders unless they want to lose.

 

[IglooDame]

Indeed, this may just be yet another bit of Trump nonsense, but it's worrisome nonetheless. One of my few anchors of sanity at this point is the hope that covid-19 means big losses for the Republicans.

This is my expectation, as he's said things like "everyone can get tested today" and "the vaccine will be available soon" among other things that have been completely groundless. He says whatever he thinks his supporters want to hear.

 

[mitsho]

Since Trump doesn't have an ideology, they could very well do this. It doesn't matter all that much if the money actually flows, or rather: it has to flow to certain areas first, namely the ones that matter in an election year. I know I like to link/cite to Vox articles, but I do think this one is relevant here:

President Donald Trump’s frustration with Democratic governors who have the temerity to criticize his administration’s flailing response to the coronavirus isn’t just leading him to post sour tweets about them. It’s also reflected in disparities surrounding which states are receiving the medical resources they need to keep patients alive and health care workers healthy.

Yes, Trump is reaching PiS and Fidesz levels of hypocrisy. And like with them, it's less about actually working policies, but that "our group" controls the government and gives back to "our group". It's cronyism and very dangerous. That said, as a Democrat. Just upstage them: Say that the amount is too small, that it needs to be done faster, and so on. In this case, it's less "when they go low, we go high" but more "fighting fire with fire". Because how he apparently treats Democratic governors is so appalling, he has to be stopped. (yesterday)

 

[Ajidica]

If the Trump Administration actually pays for Covid19 treatment, Joe Biden won’t have a chance to win the general election. The DNC should nominate Bernie Sanders unless they want to lose.

So the Democratic Party should nominate a guy who can't win among Democratic voters and did in general poorer than he did four years ago, despite a large and well publicized effort to build a national movement?

 

[Traitorfish]

So the Democratic Party should nominate a guy who can't win among Democratic voters and did in general poorer than he did four years ago, despite a large and well publicized effort to build a national movement?

If you're going to lose anyway, you might as well have a laugh.

 

[Tristan_C]

Not sure how anyone can look at the GOP and think they aren't involved in identity politics.

Because they don't see "white christian male straight" as an identity, just as the standard from which "identity groups" vary.

1. Tim wants a villain
2. Cloud wants a persecutor
3. Tristan wants to laugh at Tim and Cloud

I'm okay with this arrangement

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Indeed, this may just be yet another bit of Trump nonsense, but it's worrisome nonetheless. One of my few anchors of sanity at this point is the hope that covid-19 means big losses for the Republicans.

Pelosi should produce a bill saying exactly that and nothing more and shove it down McConnell's throat. And knowing Pelosi she is probably already working on it. Democrats have been in favor of this all along, and now that the president has committed to it here's the bill to get it done. Your move Mitch. Then the GOP in the senate will disappear behind closed doors and produce a bill full of extra pork...when the bill itself is just a bailout for insurance companies anyway.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

1. Tim wants a villain
2. Cloud wants a persecutor
3. Tristan wants to laugh at Tim and Cloud

I'm okay with this arrangement

Of course you are. Twist your mustache while you're at it.

 

[Lexicus]

And knowing Pelosi she is probably already working on it.

Yeah....uhhh....good luck with that I guess