2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Patine]

Antifa does not suppress free speech, they suppress nazis. Nazis don't do free speech they do terrorism of humans.

Comparing Antifa (a group fighting against terrorism literally) to Stalin is also insanely infantile ty for making my point. Your reactionary attitude is not covered up by your pretending to have left wing desires such as national healthcare. You vote and will continue to vote for groups that would have the infrastructure system in complete ruins in four years, education destroyed on day one, and the waters and air poisoned so badly that acid rain would be a dream.

Yea I dont care if Antifa tries to shut down nazi speech. I do not speak for antifa and someone already covered that antifa is not an organization and thus does not have formal policies or members. So yea I don;t care about your petty bullfeathers here. You value property more then life so I have nothing to say on the matter of BLM, Antifa or nazis. They obviously are not Stalinist in the way you mean. I could say the are like Jesus because some of its members have fed and treated medically the poor. That would not be a sincere representation either.

A yes, the bold and glorious, outright heroic, and Neo-Manichaean "good," faction (and thus arbitrarily above reproach or moral challenge or call-out Antifa) suppressing the vast hordes of Nazis (despite the fact only a tiny minority of the nation's population qualifies ideologically for that label, and thus a lot of those targeted or denounced as such must, by logical deduction, be arbitrarily alleged and even outright declared, by fiat with no true burden of evidence, or a lack of understanding of the term, to be Nazis). The thing is, "suppressing," people because of ideological belief, or alleged or accused ideological belief alone, and other things gone about and praised as ideas and policies on this forum, such as deplatforming people based on arbitrarily alleged ideology alone with no rational or accountable judges of that or any appeal if incorrectly targeted (read, "authoritarian censorship," as it's properly known as - Mussolini loved that tactic) and holding people, in ominous and sinister language, "accountable for their vote," in defiance of Constitutional electoral procedures and the secret ballot, and others bandied about, are effectively identical, save context and who their targeting, to trademark far-right-wing, authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, xenophobic, nationalist, historical revisionist movements (of which Fascism and Nazism are among, but certainly not the totality of - in fact a minority of, as many other such movements exists, that are different within the broader ideal, including the significant and major U.S. movements in that light), and I cannot support such tactics used, praised, or seriously mulled by anyone, be they far-right-wing extremists, modern "progressives," or anyone else, and neither should anyone of conscience, ethics, or clear mind. They are exactly the same thing, and the same socio-political evils and crimes, regardless of their perpetrators or targets, or the justifications used for such dystopian and tyrannical tactics.

 

[Estebonrober]

A yes, the bold and glorious, outright heroic, and Neo-Manichaean "good," faction (and thus arbitrarily above reproach or moral challenge or call-out Antifa) suppressing the vast hordes of Nazis (despite the fact only a tiny minority of the nation's population qualifies ideologically for that label, and thus a lot of those targeted or denounced as such must, by logical deduction, be arbitrarily alleged and even outright declared, by fiat with no true burden of evidence, or a lack of understanding of the term, to be Nazis). The thing is, "suppressing," people because of ideological belief, or alleged or accused ideological belief alone, and other things gone about and praised as ideas and policies on this forum, such as deplatforming people based on arbitrarily alleged ideology alone with no rational or accountable judges of that or any appeal if incorrectly targeted (read, "authoritarian censorship," as it's properly known as - Mussolini loved that tactic) and holding people, in ominous and sinister language, "accountable for their vote," in defiance of Constitutional electoral procedures and the secret ballot, and others bandied about, are effectively identical, save context and who their targeting, to trademark far-right-wing, authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, xenophobic, nationalist, historical revisionist movements (of which Fascism and Nazism are among, but certainly not the totality of - in fact a minority of, as many other such movements exists, that are different within the broader ideal, including the significant and major U.S. movements in that light), and I cannot support such tactics used, praised, or seriously mulled by anyone, be they far-right-wing extremists, modern "progressives," or anyone else, and neither should anyone of conscience, ethics, or clear mind. They are exactly the same thing, and the same socio-political evils and crimes, regardless of their perpetrators or targets, or the justifications used for such dystopian and tyrannical tactics.

Ah yes the equivocation of very small amounts of nazis with very small amounts of antifa as equally bad. The reality is some of these white supremacist groups have local law enforcement support ie proud boys and need to be combatted. If no one but antifa is going to do it I'll take antifa. Cause ya know who will use and are already using state power to shut down free speech? The fudging nazi sympathetic police state. So you can take this sanctimonious both sidesing bullfeathers and put it back where it belongs. I'll start getting concerned about antifa when they are getting high fives from riot police.

 

[Arwon]

I'll start getting concerned about antifa when they are getting high fives from riot police.

 

[Patine]

Ah yes the equivocation of very small amounts of nazis with very small amounts of antifa as equally bad. The reality is some of these white supremacist groups have local law enforcement support ie proud boys and need to be combatted. If no one but antifa is going to do it I'll take antifa. Cause ya know who will use and are already using state power to shut down free speech? The ******* nazi sympathetic police state. So you can take this sanctimonious both sidesing bullfeathers and put it back where it belongs. I'll start getting concerned about antifa when they are getting high fives from riot police.

Because ZANU-PF was so much better, in the end, than the Rhodesian Front...

 

[Estebonrober]

Because ZANU-PF was so much better, in the end, than the Rhodesian Front...

One is still completely irrelevant when it comes to american politics the other is threatening to overthrow the results of this election, trying to kidnap governors they don't like and their party is systematically erasing the United part of Untied states of America. Go fly a kite with this both sidesing nonsense.

 

[Arwon]

Why does it always come back to Rhodesia for cranks

 

[Ajidica]

Why does it always come back to Rhodesia for cranks

I genuinely laughed at this.

Though I am always disappointed they lost cause for Rhodesia instead of Katanga.

 

[Patine]

Go fly a kite with this both sidesing nonsense.

I'll tell you what. I'll do that when they're both not proven engines of lies, corruption, war crimes, state-induced murder, treason, support of tyrants and terrorists, and keeping of seditious secrets and holding their members above all effective criminal consequences by arbitrary fiat in the same way as Third World tinpot despots. and both exacerbating and fueling a vicious socio-political divide, the sort that Lincoln famously spoke of, that is the obvious decline, and almost certain fall, of the once great civilization and empire that is the United States of America, all for short-term (and short-sighted) political gain - OR one or more new parties with actual promise break the limits of the electorally rigged system. When this hallowed and vaunted day happens (and I'm not holding my breath for the foreseeable future), I'll abandon this attitude you so excoriate. Until then, I will carry on, and it is a very justified and valid viewpoint.

Why does it always come back to Rhodesia for cranks

I find the term "crank," is used as a generic perjorative for those who have points they don't like, agree with, or feel comfortable being brought up, but are unable to produce any sort of erudite or rational argument against, and thus try to disingenuously "shut them down" with such a simple derogative epithet, instead. That's been my experience.

 

[Patine]

I genuinely laughed at this.

Though I am always disappointed they lost cause for Rhodesia instead of Katanga.

You are too easily amused, and at all the wrong things.

 

[Arwon]

I find the term "crank," is used as a generic perjorative for those who have points they don't like, agree with, or feel comfortable being brought up, but are unable to produce any sort of erudite or rational argument against, and thus try to disingenuously "shut them down" with such a simple derogative epithet, instead. That's been my experience.

Yeah I'll have to defer to your plentiful experience in this area

 

[Ajidica]

You are too easily amused, and at all the wrong things.

Could be.
Still find it funny how many cranks come back to Rhodesia, and that they lack the imagination to bat for Katanga.

 

[Patine]

Could be.
Still find it funny how many cranks come back to Rhodesia, and that they lack the imagination to bat for Katanga.

I could have brought up Katanga, but it was a flash-in-the-pan, and very singularly focused on diamonds, and not any sort of real socio-political agendas with any conviction in a longer-term sense.

 

[Patine]

Yeah I'll have to defer to your plentiful experience in this area

I guess I can now write-off any further contributions you make to this conversation, as well as any made by @Sommerswerd, who finds your post so eminently likable.

 

[Takhisis]

Is this a transitive thing? Arwon has liked your post in turn.

 

[Takhisis]

Also, somebody called Amy Coney-Barret has been sworn in as a SCOTUS judge…

 

[Ajidica]

I could have brought up Katanga, but it was a flash-in-the-pan, and very singularly focused on diamonds, and not any sort of real socio-political agendas with any conviction in a longer-term sense.

Eh.
Sud-Kasai was diamonds. Katanga was all about copper, rare earths, and uranium coming out of Shinkolobwe.
Going to war against the United Nations for three years, causing one of the largest and most ambitious UN peacekeeping effort in history, assassinating the Prime Minister of the Congo, and being directly responsible for the death of the Secretary General is quite a rap sheet for a "flash in the pan".
And Katanga certainly had a socio-political agenda, being an attempt to preserve white rule in Africa, a corporation-state, and an expression of native black national aspirations.
All Rhodesia did was slowly collapse.

 

[Patine]

Eh.
Sud-Kasai was diamonds. Katanga was all about copper, rare earths, and uranium coming out of Shinkolobwe.
Going to war against the United Nations for three years, causing one of the largest and most ambitious UN peacekeeping effort in history, assassinating the Prime Minister of the Congo, and being directly responsible for the death of the Secretary General is quite a rap sheet for a "flash in the pan".
And Katanga certainly had a socio-political agenda, being an attempt to preserve white rule in Africa, a corporation-state, and an expression of native black national aspirations.
All Rhodesia did was slowly collapse.

I think the corporation-state is a more important factor that White minority rule in that case. Of course, I have, at a number of junctures, pointed out the often overlooked danger of the corporatist plutocratic oligarchy as a socio-political threat - a la, those '80's corporatist dictatorship dystopian fiction works, like Blade Runner, the Running Man, the Robocop Trilogy, Cyberpunk 2020, and others - as opposed to other forms of tyranny in other dystopian fictions - as a REAL and serious issue, and how BOTH major U.S. Parties, and a LOT of non-American parties, regimes, militias, and organizations, are firmly in the pockets of said corporatists, by sheer and blatant, but unpunished, corruption. But, few seem to care, because focusing the on the Conservative vs. Progressive divide is all anyone engages in, and they demand everyone else stay monomaniacally focused on that, too, and just to ignore the billionaire plutocratic puppetmasters behind the curtain - they're not relevant to anything that's going on...

 

[Farm Boy]

Is this a transitive thing? Arwon has liked your post in turn.

They're a stupid tool.

 

[Patine]

They're a stupid tool.

Me, @Arwon, or the "like," button?

 

[Farm Boy]

That's bait.