2024 US Presidential Election Watch Party

[Gorbles]

There's a bit more editorial variety when you get away from TV Networks and go to newsites instead, but it's still funny that they put NYT and MSNBC in the same column as Jacobin and the Intercept.

It's so spooooooky. Communists will eat your brains if you give them the chance!

 

[Ajidica]

I know, I pointed in another thread that people's opinions are more strongly rooted in emotions than in facts. The media does play a strong part in shaping perception though, and once a worldview has been internalized, it becomes "emotional" and harder to change (though by no means impossible). It's just a sad aspect of human psyche.

You can make sales tax that don't hurt the poor too much (VAT tax from where I am, for example, depends on the kind of item : food has low to no tax, books have low tax, luxury goods have high taxes).
A flat tax can't, because it's inherently unique (if not, it's not a flat tax anymore).
Also, wealth redistribution is necessary - unless you just want to end up with a very few people hoarding the entire wealth and everyone else with nothing. The US already are at a point, WITH progressive taxation and some measure of wealth redistribution, where 1 % of people own over 30 % of the wealth. Does that sound normal or desirable to you ?

---

Also, BTW, about media leaning, here is a website that ranks them according to their political bias :

View attachment 708873
I don't know most of them, but about those that I know, it seems pretty correct to me.

What a strange table. I'd place The Grauniad further left. Politico is just a politics mouthpiece so I'd stick it right in the center. The idea that Bloomberg - a media company owned by and specifically targetted to business and finance people - is in any way leftist is funny. Based purely on my experience with how they report on the Middle East, I'd actually consider Reuters the 'left leaning' wire service compared to AP.

And the idea that the Atlantic - the mouthpiece of the coastal 'Rockefeller Republicans' / wealthy wing of the Democratic party - is as far left as Democracy Now or Jacobin is quite possibly the silliest thing I've read all day.
One of The Atlantic's biggest writers is a former speechwriter for George Bush!

There is a running joke that this is the type of person who reads the Atlantic - not a far left type!

Spoiler size :

 

[amadeus]

I like the table. Too many brackets and I think it loses efficacy, even if it isn’t fully-encapsulating. Individual media outlets might be improperly placed, but I would say generally it is accurate.

 

[JollyRoger]

No. What part of FLAT is unclear? Inheiritance tax is just wrong. Those assets have been taxed already.
Oh, 1 mil is far to low. How much do you think a farm is worth?

Actually, most wealth of those subject to estate taxes has been untaxed because of deferred capital gains and even capital gains taxes are lower than taxes on wage serfdom. It is very easy to protect a family farm from wealth taxation and no one has yet pointed to that mythical family farm lost due to estate taxes.

 

[choxorn]

Also, BTW, about media leaning, here is a website that ranks them according to their political bias :

View attachment 708873
I don't know most of them, but about those that I know, it seems pretty correct to me.

There's some correct things in there, but the Left bias column in particular is just all over the place, as Ajidica noted The Atlantic is the mouthpiece of the centrist, pro-corporate, pro-imperialist wing of the Democratic party- hardly all that left- while Jacobin is Socialist.

And until the left understands what these people hope for, it’s not going to win.

I understand quite well that a big chunk of what the right hopes for is leopards eating people's faces, and I don't know how to explain to someone that they should care about other people.

There's a bit more editorial variety when you get away from TV Networks and go to newsites instead, but it's still funny that they put NYT and MSNBC in the same column as Jacobin and the Intercept.

The funniest part is that it has The Atlantic in the same column.

 

[Voidwalkin]

The WSJ editorial page is Right. The news is mostly Center, the audience is the wealthy.

I prefer them for news and read their editorials.

I think both lean right. Mostly I find their editorial style refreshing. Respectful tone, emotionally flat, usually. Not click-baity.

And the idea that the Atlantic - the mouthpiece of the coastal 'Rockefeller Republicans' / wealthy wing of the Democratic party

Brahmin left. They're the filter that legitimizes ideas that originate further left. They're the gatekeeper. I read it so I can see what the dems will be doing before they do it 2 years later.

 

[choxorn]

I read it so I can see what the dems will be doing before they do it 2 years later.

Well I guess I have to give you this one as being more or less accurate, but as we've been saying, the people in charge of the Democrats are pretty firmly Centrist, not Left-Wing, certainly not nearly as Left-Wing as Jacobin is.

 

[Kyriakos]

Maybe it's time, after 2000 years, to have Pelosi replaced too.

 

[Cutlass]

THAT would be a punch in the snoot if said to my face. (well, it deserves one)

I LOATHE communism. Why do you think I hate this idiotic wealth redistribution, the "state" is everything etc?
I've seen what they do, have done. NO!

And yet you said you wanted a set of policies that are exactly what one would design if their intended purpose was to kick off a communist revolution?

How do you expect me to rationalize your "claim" that you "LOATHE communism" with the fact that you want policies under which capitalism will collapse, and communism will win?

 

[amadeus]

Maybe it's time, after 2000 years, to have Pelosi replaced too.

I thought she retired from Congress, but no, just the leadership position. As a political operator though she was one of the most effective in history, so credit where credit is due.

 

[Voidwalkin]

I thought she retired from Congress, but no, just the leadership position. As a political operator though she was one of the most effective in history, so credit where credit is due.

Bahahaha. Hard disagree.

Rumors abounded that shortly after his inauguration, she had to "interpret" Biden's will to a group of stunned reps because he was incomprehensible in the midst of a senior moment.

She coulda been applying pressure all along, holding him to that 1 term promise. Coulda had a best by test primary. Mighta won.

Anti-competitive in a competitive thing is a crushing, irredeemable flaw. Her pro-social consensus politics are just...losers. Compel cooperation when competition is necessary; recency bias but I shall be glad when her influence is completely absent.

 

[Ajidica]

Bahahaha. Hard disagree.

Rumors abounded that shortly after his inauguration, she had to "interpret" Biden's will to a group of stunned reps because he was incomprehensible in the midst of a senior moment.

She coulda been applying pressure all along, holding him to that 1 term promise. Coulda had a best by test primary. Mighta won.

Anti-competitive in a competitive thing is a crushing, irredeemable flaw.

Bruh, nothing requires you to like her to acknowledge her skill as a political operator. Just think of the massive country-changing legislation she steered through the notoriously rowdy House - often with a slim majority - that has fundamentally changed America.
-TARP
-Affordable Care Act
-Dodd-Frank
-All the covid relief acts
-CHIPS Act
-Inflation Reduction Act

"While right now she is overshadowed by this thumping, she's going to rank quite high in the pantheon of modern speakers" of the last 100 years, said Norman Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. Only Texas Democrat Sam Rayburn, the longest-serving speaker in history whose parliamentary maneuvers cleared the way for passage of civil rights and social legislation in the 1960s, ranks higher.

Experts Rank Pelosi Among Greatest House Speakers

Located in Washington, D.C., The Catholic University of America is the national university of the Catholic Church, founded by the U.S. bishops and the pope, faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ as handed on by the Church. Dedicated to advancing the dialogue between faith and reason...

communications.catholic.edu

 

[Kyriakos]

Indeed that tv moment when Pelosi said that Biden hadn't yet decided what to do, after Biden explicitly said he would run again, was really pitiful.
And in the end the excuses given at the time (that if Biden run the party wouldn't just lose the election but control of the house and senate) don't hold any water, as now they have lost all three anyway.

Not that I expect that had Biden run he would have had a better result than Kamala. Just noting that in the end it didn't change anything, and likely trashed Biden in his own party.

 

[Voidwalkin]

Bruh, nothing requires you to like her to acknowledge her skill as a political operator. Just think of the massive country-changing legislation she steered through the notoriously rowdy House - often with a slim majority - that has fundamentally changed America.
-TARP
-Affordable Care Act
-Dodd-Frank
-All the covid relief acts
-CHIPS Act
-Inflation Reduction Act

I'm presently more concerned with the legislation Trump will get through both chambers because a ramshackle campaign season with rollercoaster disasters occurred largely as a result of her indecision.

I'm similarly angry with Schiff.

You can make a good journey and cover impressive distance, only to wreck so disastrously it can't really be said you did well.

I realize this is a kinda obscure and deep historical reference of little communicative power, but to me, she is now Heraclius.

 

[Ajidica]

I'm presently more concerned with the legislation Trump will get through both chambers because a ramshackle campaign season with rollercoaster disasters occurred largely as a result of her indecision.

I'm similarly angry with Schiff.

You can make a good journey and cover impressive distance, only to wreck so disastrously it can't really be said you did well.

I realize this is a kinda obscure and deep historical reference of little communicative power, but to me, she is now Heraclius.

What's wrong with pencil-necked Shifty Adam Schiff?

As for the historical reference, I don't think it is as deep as you think it is.

Spoiler my guess :

Emperor Heraclius, reigned 610 to 641.

 

[Kyriakos]

I don't see how she is Heraclius, tbh. Look what happened to the Sassanids in the same wars.
She isn't Andronikos Komnenos either, though. Recently there was a massive serial thread in byzantine reddit, ranking all the emperors (Basil II was 1, Manuel Komnenos 2), and Kamala would likely be someone very forgettable and in-between, eg Romanos II.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Strange none of the Democrat haters complain about

Chuck Grassley 90
Hal Rogers 85
Mitch McConnell 82

I guess Pelosi is a women and that makes some kind of difference.

​

 

[Voidwalkin]

What's wrong with pencil-necked Shifty Adam Schiff?

As for the historical reference, I don't think it is as deep as you think it is.

Instinct the guy with deep ME knowledge might know proves true.

Schiff is comparable to Pelosi; leader of Dems, almost certainly had the proximity to Biden to know his deficiency(which I find distasteful saying, because everyone gets there, and I like Joe, but in context of politics, senility is a deficiency), did nuffin despite reasonable certainty he could never go a campaign with all its exposure without disastrous collapse.

Lack of spine. It's a competitive business. If you know your guy can't, get replacement over with early and begin a new competition to determine the fittest candidate, which, honestly, probably wasn't Kamala. I was pleased to vote for her, but she wouldn't have won a primary.

I don't see how she is Heraclius, tbh. Look what happened to the Sassanids in the same wars

Pelosi had a long successful career as a reformer, but ultimately, didn't really muster a strong reply to an unexpected situation(Biden's infirmity). The lack of prompt reply kinda invited further disaster.

It's not wholly dissimilar. Heraclius in a world without Mohammad is near top, with him, middling. Pelosi without the Biden episode would be much stronger.

I could be wrong here, but it always goes that as we get further from an administration, insiders write bios for want of $. I'm willing to bet it comes out influential Dem leaders knew of Biden's struggles, but did nothing. I'm ever the utilitarian, and I think Bidens policies did the most good for the most people, so covering while he's in office actually does make sense to me while others would dispute it. Dynamic changes for the re-election campaign: if he can't win, prolonging via inactivity does harm. Pretty sure it's gonna come out and it's not gonna be good for any influential Dem, but those closest and most influential are gonna be hurt worst on historical career assessment.

 

[Zardnaar]

Isn't Heraclius kinda respected for saving what he could?

He didn't cause the Islamic expansion that was coming regardless.

 

[Voidwalkin]

Strange none of the Democrat haters complain about

Chuck Grassley 90
Hal Rogers 85
Mitch McConnell 82

I guess Pelosi is a women and that makes some kind of difference.

​

Gingrich. Imo responsible for creation of the strategy McConnell would later use. Not sure Mitch was smart enough to do that. Still pretty damaging, though. I give the two silver and bronze behind the gold medalist Calhoun for destructive legislators.

Isn't Heraclius kinda respected for saving what he could?

It goes back and forth. Great commander that didn't personally take the field later in his reign. Gibbon heavily criticized his later reign for inactivity. Some historians are more charitable, seeing Arabian unification and subsequent expansion as an unavoidable tidal wave, and credit his reforms for stabilizing effect(albeit after massive territorial losses)

Personally think he shoulda taken the field much more regularly.