2nd UU and 2nd UB for DoC

[Civciv5]

I have a suggestion for the Thai and Khmer second UB:a Wat.
They could be universities that give some culture and maybe a free scientist.
They will share the UB because the Thai and Khmer (and Laotians) all built them.

 

[ales_]

Sharing a UB is a bad idea. Only one civ should have it.

 

[trexeric]

Chinampa
Replaces GRANARY
Stores 75% after growth, +1 and from corn (no bonus from wheat or rice), +1 if on lake or river, costs 75
There is probably art somewhere.
Wikipedia page

 

[Civciv5]

Sharing a UB is a bad idea. Only one civ should have it.

Well giving one of them it would be also a bad idea because they both build it.
I can't find any building that is exclusively Khmer or Thai.

 

[Stazro]

I can't find any building that is exclusively Khmer or Thai.

Perhaps more characteristic is enough. The holy roman UB is "Rathaus". That's just german for town hall. Don't tell me there are no town halls outside of Germany. And that's just one example.


By the way, can anyone tell me how up to date the spreadsheet in post 2 is?

 

[merijn_v1]

I have a suggestion for the Thai and Khmer second UB:a Wat.
They could be universities that give some culture and maybe a free scientist.
They will share the UB because the Thai and Khmer (and Laotians) all built them.

Well giving one of them it would be also a bad idea because they both build it.
I can't find any building that is exclusively Khmer or Thai.

I agree with the others. An UB should be an Unique Building.

Chinampa
Replaces GRANARY
Stores 75% after growth, +1 and from corn (no bonus from wheat or rice), +1 if on lake or river, costs 75
There is probably art somewhere.
Wikipedia page

I wanted to give that bonus to the Polish UB. (Granary that provides a bit of food and extra foodstorage). But as you could see in the spreadsheet, I'm already planning to give the Chinampa to the Aztecs. I don't know a good bonus however. I already have the art for it.

It could be a replacement for the Levee that comes much earlier. I know that the Levee is one of the most powerful buildings in the game and making it aviable early could be overpowered, but as there are not many rivers in the Aztec territory (or you should expand beyond historical borders), it's bonus isn't that big.


@ Stazro
The last update I made was yesterday, so the spreadsheet is very up to date.
But that doesn't mean I'm pleased with everything and many are not the final version. Example, I want to replace the Arabian Xebec, but I don't have an appropriate units that could replace it.

 

[Leoreth]

The problem with giving the Polish a granary UB (I thought of the Folwark too) is that they'd never have to build it.

 

[Stazro]

@ Stazro
The last update I made was yesterday, so the spreadsheet is very up to date.
But that doesn't mean I'm pleased with everything and many are not the final version. Example, I want to replace the Arabian Xebec, but I don't have an appropriate units that could replace it.

OK, then. I had a quick look at the UUs (at least the european ones) and I had some thoughts I would like to share. Just do with it what you want.

Italy: I've read that the Condottieri (the term actually refers to the commanders, not the soldiers themselves, but I don't think that really matters) held on to outdated tactics and traditions and proved themselves ineffectual against the more modern armies from other countries. Perhaps it would be an idea to make it an earlier, but worse, cuirassier instead of knight. So Italy will initially have an advantage over the other civs' knight, but after those modernize and get to cuirassiers, Italy will be stuck with a less effective cavalry force.

HRE: Since the first UU is the Landsknecht, with the Doppelsoldner would end up with two medieval melee UUs. That's a bit too close together for my taste - especially since technically a Doppelsöldner would just be a special type of Landsknecht. However, in the form of austrian Habsburg, the civ represents a great power for quite some time longer. My idea: Hungarian Hussar instead of cavalry. Since Hussars are light cavalry (that is, everywhere except in Poland), the visibility or movement cost promotions would lend themselves.

Prussia: The combination of Panzer and Howitzer gives this civ too much of a 20th century focus, in my opinion. After all, it starts with Frederick II as its first leader. When looking at the seven years war, especially the english speaking world focusses on the fighting in english and french colonies, but for Prussia it marks the maturation into a power to reckon with: Severely outnumbered it prevailed against russian, austrian and french attacks and the discipline of the prussian infantry became an ideal for a generation of european officers. Thus my suggestion: replace either rifleman or grenadier for prussian UU.

I know too little about most of the other civs too really contribute anything useful, I fear. But there are some units on the list that I really like.

 

[merijn_v1]

The problem with giving the Polish a granary UB (I thought of the Folwark too) is that they'd never have to build it.

That's also one of my concerns. But I don't know anything better, so I'll keep the Folwark until a better one is found. Another solution is to let the Folwark replace a grocer or something, but with the same bonus. This may not be the most historical way, but for gameplay it will manage I think.

OK, then. I had a quick look at the UUs (at least the european ones) and I had some thoughts I would like to share. Just do with it what you want.

Italy: I've read that the Condottieri (the term actually refers to the commanders, not the soldiers themselves, but I don't think that really matters) held on to outdated tactics and traditions and proved themselves ineffectual against the more modern armies from other countries. Perhaps it would be an idea to make it an earlier, but worse, cuirassier instead of knight. So Italy will initially have an advantage over the other civs' knight, but after those modernize and get to cuirassiers, Italy will be stuck with a less effective cavalry force.

HRE: Since the first UU is the Landsknecht, with the Doppelsoldner would end up with two medieval melee UUs. That's a bit too close together for my taste - especially since technically a Doppelsöldner would just be a special type of Landsknecht. However, in the form of austrian Habsburg, the civ represents a great power for quite some time longer. My idea: Hungarian Hussar instead of cavalry. Since Hussars are light cavalry (that is, everywhere except in Poland), the visibility or movement cost promotions would lend themselves.

Prussia: The combination of Panzer and Howitzer gives this civ too much of a 20th century focus, in my opinion. After all, it starts with Frederick II as its first leader. When looking at the seven years war, especially the english speaking world focusses on the fighting in english and french colonies, but for Prussia it marks the maturation into a power to reckon with: Severely outnumbered it prevailed against russian, austrian and french attacks and the discipline of the prussian infantry became an ideal for a generation of european officers. Thus my suggestion: replace either rifleman or grenadier for prussian UU.
I know too little about most of the other civs too really contribute anything useful, I fear. But there are some units on the list that I really like.

Good idea about the Condoteirri. I'll use that.

I'm also trying to avoid that both of the civ's UU are very similar. However, I really like the Doppelsöldner as an unit. (Too bad that the other UU is very similar) I could give it the bonus of the Ethiopian Savanna Hunter, but then the Ethiopians need another bonus or (preferably) a whole different unit.

Like all men, I like big guns. I really think the Howitzer is a good UU and I don't mind that it gives too much focus on the 20th century. The Howitzer is aviable when the Prussian should be at their peak, which is a good case IMO.
BTW, some civs around it already have a 2nd UU that replaces the Rifleman or Grenadier, or at least a gunpowder unit. (Netherlands, Vikings, Italy (1st UU), Spain, Russia) Making the Prussian 2nd UU a Howitzer gives some diversity. And I their are not many lategame UU.

I also don't know much about some exotic civs. For those I depend on suggestions of others.

 

[Civciv5]

I agree with the others. An UB should be an Unique Building

Well,if you really want two building that are exclusively Khmer or Thai I have two suggestions.
For the Thai:Chedi,replaces Buddhist Temple,gives more culture and a free artist
For the Khmer:Temple complex,replaces Buddhist "Cathedral",gives more culture and a free priest,but also more expensive to build

 

[ales_]

I'm already planning to give the Chinampa to the Aztecs.

The Floating Gardens are already in game as a wonder.

 

[Civciv5]

The Floating Gardens are already in game as a wonder.

Yes,I'm wondering what will change.

 

[teriaky]

Maybe the Moors second UU could be a privateer (in order to represent the barbary coast pirates).

 

[merijn_v1]

Well,if you really want two building that are exclusively Khmer or Thai I have two suggestions.
For the Thai:Chedi,replaces Buddhist Temple,gives more culture and a free artist
For the Khmer:Temple complex,replaces Buddhist "Cathedral",gives more culture and a free priest,but also more expensive to build

I don't think an UB should replace a religious building or a missionary. I want to give the player the opportunity to choose his religion without them loosing their UU/UB. I think an UU/UB should be buildable no matter what their religion (or civic) is.

The Floating Gardens are already in game as a wonder.

I'm aware of that. I don't know a good replacement, so I'll keep it until a better one is found.

Maybe the Moors second UU could be a privateer (in order to represent the barbary coast pirates).

A nice idea, but IMO, it's aesthetic part is a bit less. When you see a barbarian Corsair (the 2nd UU of the Moors), you know that it's a Moorish unit, even though it has the barbarian flag, because no one else can build a Corsair. So the hidden nationality part doesn't work. (at least not for the humans, I think the AI doens't understand this)
Has anyone experienced this problem with the Indonesian Orang Laut?

However, as the AI doesn't build many Privateers, the human player probably won't see this a lot. And even if you knew who send the Privateer, would you declare war on that civ, or would you just destroy the ship and go on with the game?
If the Corsair is build by the human player, it doesn't really matter, because the AI doesn't know that a Corsair must be a Moorish unit.

 

[Civciv5]

I don't think an UB should replace a religious building or a missionary. I want to give the player the opportunity to choose his religion without them loosing their UU/UB. I think an UU/UB should be buildable no matter what their religion (or civic) is.

Well I don't know what other building they should replace.
I wish you success in finding a suitable building...

 

[Leoreth]

Kick the wonder out I say. If DoC vanilla had two UBs I never would've created the wonder.

 

[AdrienIer]

When you see a barbarian Corsair (the 2nd UU of the Moors), you know that it's a Moorish unit, even though it has the barbarian flag, because no one else can build a Corsair. So the hidden nationality part doesn't work. (at least not for the humans, I think the AI doens't understand this)

It actually depends : are there barbary corsair spawns already (as real barbarians I mean) ? If so it's not so much of a problem, you can't know if it's the Moors who sent you those or if it's just a random barbarian spawn.

 

[merijn_v1]

The barbarian Corsairs that spawn are Privateer units. The Corsair I'm talking about is a different unit. My Corsair was the Moorish replacement for the Privateer.

Or will it be added in the barbarian overhaul?

 

[AdrienIer]

Well... That's what I was wondering about, seeing corsairs in the Mediterranean from the 17th century onwards would be nice !

 

[strijder20]

How's that a problem, Merijn? This isn't a multiplayer game, and so pirating someone won't create any hard feelings that can lead to war. And as you already said yourself, the AI doesn't realise anyway.