3rd UU/UB Suggestions

[ScottMcPwn]

Actually it was meant to be a UI, not a UB; it could be an interesting Fort replacement. I do realize it is a bit controversial, but with Russia I feel like I'm scraping the bottom of the bowl a little.

Hmm.. I suppose it could be a UI that produces say about +2 for the forced labour on prisoners, but as I have mentioned before, it would be like giving the Germans a "Concentration Camp" UI/UB and a lot of people would take issue and give the game bad publicity :/

 

[KnelRivendare]

Artillery pieces have no UUs, and there is a lot of famous guns like turkish grand bombard, german flak 88 or fat berta in WWI (UU that could only move on railroad ), also there is no mortars, howitzers etc

flak 88 would be a great as replacement for anti air gun with additional anti tank promotion.

or as replacement for artillery with huge range- antitank and antiair promotion but that seems kind of overpowered

 

[ScottMcPwn]

flak 88 would be a great as replacement for anti air gun with additional anti tank promotion.

or as replacement for artillery with huge range- antitank and antiair promotion but that seems kind of overpowered

If you want an artillery with huge range, we could say a Karl Thor gun for Germany

 

[inasnapp]

I personally would love to terrorize my enemies with legendary Soviet (ok Russian) Katyushas.

 

[steveg700]

If you want an artillery with huge range, we could say a Karl Thor gun for Germany

You know what I'd love to see? Gustav and Dora. Consider the idea: a wonder that isn't a static building that provides some esoteric benefit, but is rather a weapon. A big, honkin', souped-up artillery unit.

 

[Bobert13]

You know what I'd love to see? Gustav and Dora. Consider the idea: a wonder that isn't a static building that provides some esoteric benefit, but is rather a weapon. A big, honkin', souped-up artillery unit.

Wonders as military units?!

Why stop with the German artillery? Trojan Horse, The 300 Spartans, a 17th century wooden submarine, U.S.S. Reagan (super carrier), Mecha-Streisand...

 

[ScottMcPwn]

You know what I'd love to see? Gustav and Dora. Consider the idea: a wonder that isn't a static building that provides some esoteric benefit, but is rather a weapon. A big, honkin', souped-up artillery unit.

Well, while your at it you could add in a Landkreuzer P.1000 Ratte to go along

 

[Vandal Thorne]

My 2 pence...

1) 3 Uniques is plenty, 4 is a bit overkill.
2) Knowing what the new Unique replaces would be useful.

From the OP, additions in italics are my input

America - B17, Minuteman, Sherman Tank and Mall -- replaces Stadium? - ideally BNW will add a late game money building such as a supermarket
Arabia - Camel Archer, Bazaar, Madrasa[sic] -- a University replacement, should generate +1 Faith and Ikwhan Militia
Austria - Hussar, Coffee House, Grenzers -- a Rifleman replacement and Landwehr
Aztecs - Jaguar, Floating Garden, Eagle Scout -- a Swordsman replacement, shouldn't require Iron and Tlaloc Canoe
Babylon - Bowman, Walls of Babylon, Ziggurat -- a Temple replacement, since it was also a kind of fortification perhaps it should add +1 combat strength and +5 HP to the city it is built in... and Sapper
Byzantium - Cataphract, Dromon, Hillside Monastery and Greek Flamethrower -- my suggestion is Church - Temple replacement, +2 Culture in addtion to its Faith bonus
Carthage - African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme, Cothon and Numidian Cavalry -- Horseman replacement
Celts - Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall, Iceni Chariots and Gallic Swordsman -- Swordsman replacement - perhaps it has a strength buff when facing units with no other units adjacent to either of them (Gallic Honor)
China - Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker, Fire Lance and Manchu Infantry -- I would suggest the Hutong as a Windmill replacement at production: +4, +5%
Denmark - Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry, Stave Church and Longship -- Presumably a Trireme replacement - able to enter ocean but only at 1/4 movement
Egypt - War Chariot, Burial Tomb, Nubian Mercenaries -- Presumably another Archer replacement and Mamelukes
England/Great Britain- Longbowman, Redcoat -- presumably a Rifleman replacement Black Watch and Textile Mill - Ship of the Line should be removed! - wat? These things are the reason there was a British Empire. Their main line battleships were simply better than everyone else...
Ethiopia - Mehal Sefari, Stele, Oromo Warrior -- presumably a musketman replacement and - Yet to be decided
France - Foreign Legion, Musketeer, Chateau -- A unique tile improvement for hills and forest? what would it do? and Gendarme
Germany - Landsknecht, Panzer, Volksgrenadier and Rathaus -- I'd go with an Artillery replacement, such as Field Howitzer, only +100% vs. cities but also +100% against fortified units; also the Landsknecht needs some other goodness than being cheap. It isn't like Europe was overrun by them. Gaining gold for killing enemies might be an appropriate "mercenary" ability.
Greece - Companion Cavalry, Hoplite, Agora and Gymnasium -- a Colosseum replacement, perhaps adds +5% production for training land units
Huns - Horse Archer, Battering Ram, Yurt -- a unique tile improvement, replaces Pasture, provides +1 culture in addition to normal effectsand - Yet to be decided
Incas - Slinger, Terrace Farm, Huaminca -- a Spearman replacement? and Quechua Warrior
India - War Elephant, Mughal Fort, Sepoy -- a WWI Infantry replacement; a good reminder that while Gandhi is a pacifist, India is not (wish they would pick a different Indian leader...) and Rajput
Iroquois - Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse, Kanya Horseman and Mantlet -- I'd go with something like Seneca Scout - a Musketman replacement; why the Mohawk Warrior isn't toting a Musket I'll never know...
Japan - Samurai, Zero, Dojo -- an Armory replacement, +1 culture in addition to normal effect and Ashigaru Musketeer
Korea - Turtle Ship, Hwach'a, Hwarang and KPA Infantry -- I'd go with Cheomseongdae, an observatory replacement. +2 Science in addition to normal effect. Also, the I'd advocate changing the Turtle Ship so that it can enter ocean but only at 1/4 movement.
Mayas - Atlatist, Pyramid, Holcan Spearman and Ballcourt -- a colosseum replacement, +1 culture in addition to normal effect.
Mongolia - Keshik, Khan, Ger and Laminate Bowman -- I'd go with Mangonel, a Trebuchet replacement with -2 Strength but +1 movement; I'd also give the Khan combat Strength and cannot melee attack, that way they can defend themselves; I would tier this through the ages, something like this: Ancient Khan - Strength: 7, Classical Khan - Strength: 14, Medieval Khan - Strength: 21 with strength peaking here. Khans become the Great General that can defend themselves.
Netherlands - Sea Beggar, Polder, Ruyter and Fluyt -- I might go with Flemish Knight, a Knight replacement, instead. Of course this essentially merges Flanders into the Netherlands, which was an on and off thing through the centuries...
Turks/Ottomans- Janissary, Sipahi, Great Bombard -- a cannon replacement, more effective against cities but less effective against units and Caravansarais
Persia - Immortal, Satrap's Court, Mahout and Qizilibash Cavalry -- I'd go with Parthian Horse Archers instead, a Horseman replacement.
Polynesia - Maori Warrior, Moai, Double Headed Canoe -- I might call this an Outrigger and obviously it is a Trireme replacement with the ability to go into the ocean and Holiday Resort
Rome - Ballista, Legion, Spa and Forum -- a market replacement that grants +2 culture in addition
Russia - Cossack, Krepost, Shock Infantry and T80 Tank -- a Modern Armor replacement?
Siam - Naresuan's Elephant, Wat, Seri Thai and Mercenary Musketeer -- I might go with Stupa, a Shrine replacement
Songhai - Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque, Malian Militia and - Yet to be decided -- I might go with Sofa, a Crossbowman replacement with some kind of posion effect, like units hit by a Sofa the turn before take 25% of the damage the turn after...
Spain - Tercio, Conquistador, Bull Arena -- a Colosseum replacement? and Rodeleros
Sweden - Hakkapeliitta, Carolean, Sauna -- a unique improvement for snow covered hills? and Bollhuset

Overall, adding a third unique is a good idea but I like the idea that many of these will be buildings and only a few will be military units.

 

[Babri]

I personally would prefer Volksgrenadiers as it would fit perfectly to go with the Panzers and cover Germany's main time period - The World Wars. Because now in Civ 5, Firaxis are focusing to make the game for a wider audience so Germany being focused on the Industrial-Modern period would be understandable for most people.
Another thing is the Jaegers were mainly paid to be mercenaries for other European power's colonies in America :/

While it would make good synergy with Panzers, it is important to realize that later the UUs come, less impact they have on the game.

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

 

[sukritact]

Siam - Naresuan's Elephant, Wat, Seri Thai and Mercenary Musketeer -- I might go with Stupa, a Shrine replacement

Stupas would make no sense with Wats, it'd be like having both a Mall and a Mall Cafeteria as UBs. You seldom see stupas independent of Wats (least not in Thailand).

If you want another UB, go with a Sala, a Foreign Mission (Ayutthaya sponsored a good number IIRC), a Floating Market, a Lak Mueang (good replacement for the Shrine) or even Khlongs.

Meanwhile what about Khopesh Swordsmen for Egypt?

 

[ScottMcPwn]

My 2 pence...

1) 3 Uniques is plenty, 4 is a bit overkill.
2) Knowing what the new Unique replaces would be useful.

From the OP, additions in italics are my input

America - B17, Minuteman, Sherman Tank and Mall -- replaces Stadium? - ideally BNW will add a late game money building such as a supermarket
Arabia - Camel Archer, Bazaar, Madrasa[sic] -- a University replacement, should generate +1 Faith and Ikwhan Militia
Austria - Hussar, Coffee House, Grenzers -- a Rifleman replacement and Landwehr
Aztecs - Jaguar, Floating Garden, Eagle Scout -- a Swordsman replacement, shouldn't require Iron and Tlaloc Canoe
Babylon - Bowman, Walls of Babylon, Ziggurat -- a Temple replacement, since it was also a kind of fortification perhaps it should add +1 combat strength and +5 HP to the city it is built in... and Sapper
Byzantium - Cataphract, Dromon, Hillside Monastery and Greek Flamethrower -- my suggestion is Church - Temple replacement, +2 Culture in addtion to its Faith bonus
Carthage - African Forest Elephant, Quiquereme, Cothon and Numidian Cavalry -- Horseman replacement
Celts - Pictish Warrior, Ceilidh Hall, Iceni Chariots and Gallic Swordsman -- Swordsman replacement - perhaps it has a strength buff when facing units with no other units adjacent to either of them (Gallic Honor)
China - Chu-Ko-Nu, Paper Maker, Fire Lance and Manchu Infantry -- I would suggest the Hutong as a Windmill replacement at production: +4, +5%
Denmark - Berserker, Norwegian Ski Infantry, Stave Church and Longship -- Presumably a Trireme replacement - able to enter ocean but only at 1/4 movement
Egypt - War Chariot, Burial Tomb, Nubian Mercenaries -- Presumably another Archer replacement and Mamelukes
England/Great Britain- Longbowman, Redcoat -- presumably a Rifleman replacement Black Watch and Textile Mill - Ship of the Line should be removed! - wat? These things are the reason there was a British Empire. Their main line battleships were simply better than everyone else...
Ethiopia - Mehal Sefari, Stele, Oromo Warrior -- presumably a musketman replacement and - Yet to be decided
France - Foreign Legion, Musketeer, Chateau -- A unique tile improvement for hills and forest? what would it do? and Gendarme
Germany - Landsknecht, Panzer, Volksgrenadier and Rathaus -- I'd go with an Artillery replacement, such as Field Howitzer, only +100% vs. cities but also +100% against fortified units; also the Landsknecht needs some other goodness than being cheap. It isn't like Europe was overrun by them. Gaining gold for killing enemies might be an appropriate "mercenary" ability.
Greece - Companion Cavalry, Hoplite, Agora and Gymnasium -- a Colosseum replacement, perhaps adds +5% production for training land units
Huns - Horse Archer, Battering Ram, Yurt -- a unique tile improvement, replaces Pasture, provides +1 culture in addition to normal effectsand - Yet to be decided
Incas - Slinger, Terrace Farm, Huaminca -- a Spearman replacement? and Quechua Warrior
India - War Elephant, Mughal Fort, Sepoy -- a WWI Infantry replacement; a good reminder that while Gandhi is a pacifist, India is not (wish they would pick a different Indian leader...) and Rajput
Iroquois - Mohawk Warrior, Longhouse, Kanya Horseman and Mantlet -- I'd go with something like Seneca Scout - a Musketman replacement; why the Mohawk Warrior isn't toting a Musket I'll never know...
Japan - Samurai, Zero, Dojo -- an Armory replacement, +1 culture in addition to normal effect and Ashigaru Musketeer
Korea - Turtle Ship, Hwach'a, Hwarang and KPA Infantry -- I'd go with Cheomseongdae, an observatory replacement. +2 Science in addition to normal effect. Also, the I'd advocate changing the Turtle Ship so that it can enter ocean but only at 1/4 movement.
Mayas - Atlatist, Pyramid, Holcan Spearman and Ballcourt -- a colosseum replacement, +1 culture in addition to normal effect.
Mongolia - Keshik, Khan, Ger and Laminate Bowman -- I'd go with Mangonel, a Trebuchet replacement with -2 Strength but +1 movement; I'd also give the Khan combat Strength and cannot melee attack, that way they can defend themselves; I would tier this through the ages, something like this: Ancient Khan - Strength: 7, Classical Khan - Strength: 14, Medieval Khan - Strength: 21 with strength peaking here. Khans become the Great General that can defend themselves.
Netherlands - Sea Beggar, Polder, Ruyter and Fluyt -- I might go with Flemish Knight, a Knight replacement, instead. Of course this essentially merges Flanders into the Netherlands, which was an on and off thing through the centuries...
Turks/Ottomans- Janissary, Sipahi, Great Bombard -- a cannon replacement, more effective against cities but less effective against units and Caravansarais
Persia - Immortal, Satrap's Court, Mahout and Qizilibash Cavalry -- I'd go with Parthian Horse Archers instead, a Horseman replacement.
Polynesia - Maori Warrior, Moai, Double Headed Canoe -- I might call this an Outrigger and obviously it is a Trireme replacement with the ability to go into the ocean and Holiday Resort
Rome - Ballista, Legion, Spa and Forum -- a market replacement that grants +2 culture in addition
Russia - Cossack, Krepost, Shock Infantry and T80 Tank -- a Modern Armor replacement?
Siam - Naresuan's Elephant, Wat, Seri Thai and Mercenary Musketeer -- I might go with Stupa, a Shrine replacement
Songhai - Mandekalu Cavalry, Mud Pyramid Mosque, Malian Militia and - Yet to be decided -- I might go with Sofa, a Crossbowman replacement with some kind of posion effect, like units hit by a Sofa the turn before take 25% of the damage the turn after...
Spain - Tercio, Conquistador, Bull Arena -- a Colosseum replacement? and Rodeleros
Sweden - Hakkapeliitta, Carolean, Sauna -- a unique improvement for snow covered hills? and Bollhuset

Overall, adding a third unique is a good idea but I like the idea that many of these will be buildings and only a few will be military units.

The whole point of unqiue units is that they are unique to the country that they belong to. The Ship of the Line were in no way unique to Britain, they were just another type of ship that everyone was using at this period in time.
I dont see what is wrong with 4 UUs/UBs. I'd say it would max out the civ's representation because to be honest, 2 or 3 UUs/UBs to show a civ's history for 6000 years? In which most of that time, all the civs are using the same generic units to fight eachover with for the most of it. Whereas having 4 UUs/UBs is about the minimum and maximum amount you could have at the same time.
4 Shows more history and represents a civ a lot better than 2 or 3 but at the same time is about as far as you can go due to the obscurity of some civs.
And I don't see how it is overkill at all as just us, the fans are able to come up with a good long list for every civ that is balanced and has atleast 1 UB or UI to go with the UUs so it isn't unbalanced so I don't see what is stopping the devs from coming up with it.

 

[ScottMcPwn]

While it would make good synergy with Panzers, it is important to realize that later the UUs come, less impact they have on the game.

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

Well Germany already has a early/mid game unit to replace Pikemen and also there is a large list of good UBs such as the already suggested Rathaus then you could say a Beer Hall or something along them lines instead.

 

[Vandal Thorne]

The whole point of unqiue units is that they are unique to the country that they belong to. The Ship of the Line were in no way unique to Britain, they were just another type of ship that everyone was using at this period in time.
I dont see what is wrong with 4 UUs/UBs. I'd say it would max out the civ's representation because to be honest, 2 or 3 UUs/UBs to show a civ's history for 6000 years? In which most of that time, all the civs are using the same generic units to fight eachover with for the most of it. Whereas having 4 UUs/UBs is about the minimum and maximum amount you could have at the same time.
4 Shows more history and represents a civ a lot better than 2 or 3 but at the same time is about as far as you can go due to the obscurity of some civs.
And I don't see how it is overkill at all as just us, the fans are able to come up with a good long list for every civ that is balanced and has atleast 1 UB or UI to go with the UUs so it isn't unbalanced so I don't see what is stopping the devs from coming up with it.

The flaw with your argument is that Firaxis has already chosen Frigates to represent other nations' "Ship of the Line". Like the so-called Lancer gap, this is a non-issue. We could simply change the name to Man o' War, and there you go..."unique".

The bigger problem with so-called "uniques" is that none of them are actually unique beyond uniforms or very cosmetic differences. Saying that England shouldn't have Ship of the Line as their UU is a slippery slope that ends with an argument for eliminating everything unique from the game because none of the uniques are functionally different from the things they replace, IRL, and are just as easily represented with a generic...

...and four uniques is a bit overkill and also runs the danger of over-conglomerating cultures, e.g., Rome and Italy who couldn't be more culturally different, or rolling the Sumerians into the Akkadian Empire and its ingame successors (Assysria and Babylon) or rolling the Hittites and Phoenicians together. The other problem is what effects are you going to use to make these extra uniques distinct. There is a limited pallet of mechanics to choose from and IMO, all of the interesting ones are already in use, i.e., this was the purpose of uniques in the first place, to riff on the rules and make civilations different from one another through more personalized means than technology and social policies since you can't really express cultural differences any other way in an abstract game like CiV anyway.

IMO, I'd prefer to see regionally distinct architecture and unit sprites before we see fourth uniques.

YMMV

 

[Liex]

IMO 3 would be great, 4 would be too much.

Brazil- Prachinas, Brazilwood Camp and Cangaceiros

The Cangaceiros were bandits from Brazil's semiarid, much like those gangs we see in Western movies. If we were talking about Barbarians' UUs, they'd have a nice chance.

For Brazil, the best choices would be:

Fatherland Volunteers, replacing the riflemen;
Independence Dragoons, replacing the Lancers or Calvary;
Bandeirantes, replacing the Musketmen.

Since they included a colonial feature (Brazilwood camp), the Bandeirantes wouldn't be a problem and could work great with the Brazil's UA (it's usually suggested an ability to build mines and a combat bonus when fighting near luxury resources). It also could help Brazil in the mid game (Renaissance), which is nice since the Pracinhas and the other alternatives come later.

If we needed an UB, the Sambodrome could replace the Theatre, yielding some culture and having some additional effect in Golden Ages (Carnivals).

 

[Vandal Thorne]

Stupas would make no sense with Wats, it'd be like having both a Mall and a Mall Cafeteria as UBs. You seldom see stupas independent of Wats (least not in Thailand).

If you want another UB, go with a Sala, a Foreign Mission (Ayutthaya sponsored a good number IIRC), a Floating Market, a Lak Mueang (good replacement for the Shrine) or even Khlongs.

Meanwhile what about Khopesh Swordsmen for Egypt?

That's fair. Failure to do enough homework on my part.

Good idea with the Khopesh Swordsmen. I actually like it better than the suggested Nubian Mercenaries.

 

[steveg700]

Well, while your at it you could add in a Landkreuzer P.1000 Ratte to go along

Hehe. Yeah, but the Gustav Gun actually got built and even used a bit.

 

[Njegos]

A bit off topic, i would like that u can build or chose the type of weapon ur infrantry uses, for example, when u chose infrantry to chose weather they will use ak47,favs or M16s , and every single gun should have some bonus or minus

 

[ScottMcPwn]

Stupas would make no sense with Wats, it'd be like having both a Mall and a Mall Cafeteria as UBs. You seldom see stupas independent of Wats (least not in Thailand).

If you want another UB, go with a Sala, a Foreign Mission (Ayutthaya sponsored a good number IIRC), a Floating Market, a Lak Mueang (good replacement for the Shrine) or even Khlongs.

Meanwhile what about Khopesh Swordsmen for Egypt?

Yes the Khopesh Swordsmen are perfectly fitting for ancient Egypt - Added.

 

[ScottMcPwn]

The flaw with your argument is that Firaxis has already chosen Frigates to represent other nations' "Ship of the Line". Like the so-called Lancer gap, this is a non-issue. We could simply change the name to Man o' War, and there you go..."unique".

The bigger problem with so-called "uniques" is that none of them are actually unique beyond uniforms or very cosmetic differences. Saying that England shouldn't have Ship of the Line as their UU is a slippery slope that ends with an argument for eliminating everything unique from the game because none of the uniques are functionally different from the things they replace, IRL, and are just as easily represented with a generic...

...and four uniques is a bit overkill and also runs the danger of over-conglomerating cultures, e.g., Rome and Italy who couldn't be more culturally different, or rolling the Sumerians into the Akkadian Empire and its ingame successors (Assysria and Babylon) or rolling the Hittites and Phoenicians together. The other problem is what effects are you going to use to make these extra uniques distinct. There is a limited pallet of mechanics to choose from and IMO, all of the interesting ones are already in use, i.e., this was the purpose of uniques in the first place, to riff on the rules and make civilations different from one another through more personalized means than technology and social policies since you can't really express cultural differences any other way in an abstract game like CiV anyway.

IMO, I'd prefer to see regionally distinct architecture and unit sprites before we see fourth uniques.

YMMV

The main reason I would like to see more UUs is to make the game more interesting.
As I have mentioned, all civs end up using units with the same European skin every time.
A mod has changed this called "Ethnic Units" and like all cultural regions have their own architecture, it gives them their own unit skins aswell.
E.g. Iroquious musketmen are a band of warriors with captured muskets, same unit, same strength but just a different skin so the game is still balanced.
And then Germany will have Volksgrenadiers for infantry but its the same unit.
Thats all I want, each civ having culturaly appropriate skins so it isn't the same Eurocentric generic skins for everyone.

 

[Njegos]

The main reason I would like to see more UUs is to make the game more interesting.
As I have mentioned, all civs end of using units with the same European skin every time.
A mod has changed this called "Ethnic Units" and like all cultural regions have their own architecture, it gives them their own unit skins aswell.
E.g. Iroquious musketmen are a band of warriors with captured muskets, same unit, same strength but just a different skin so the game is still balanced.
And then Germany will have Volksgrenadiers for infantry but its the same unit.
Thats all I want, each civ having culturaly appropriate skins so it isn't the same Eurocentric generic skins for everyone.

Couldnt agree more...would really change the game exp !