arievillo
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2020
- Messages
- 168
Are you sure?
You installed only CP from the last VP beta right? And you put EUI 1.28G in your DLC folder? Thats it? If so i dont think is gonna work.
6-7 New Beta Version
- Thread starter Gazebo
- Start date
- Status
NO. I do used EUI default from Vox Populi exe 6-7-5. After that didn't work, I tried to use EUI 1.28g. The bugs were the same.
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I've played two standard India games (with 3/4 UC) about 150 turns in (unfortunately the 6-7-5 hotfix wasn't save game compatible for me, so I had to start another). Gandhi now faces another kind of pressure, and that is to expand as fast as possible. Both games had me found very quickly between turns 65-85 (Incense / Wine starts + I found some faith ruins) opening with God King / Tradition, but it ended up being counter-productive; the earlier you found through excelling at initiating religion -- which is, of course, the entire purpose of playing India -- the less time you have to actually establish any satellite cities that can be converted via your first prophet. Despite having great tall starts with several early wonders secured (including Pyramids for the free Settler), I was rendered into the same situation where it takes 50+ turns (after founding) for my 3rd city onward to actually flip. My pop was already practically double of any met civs, and both games consisted of immediate faith purchases of Churches / Cathedrals (1st game) + Mandirs / Cathedrals (2nd game).
Considering India is one of the most religious focused civs, it still kinda feels like your fighting against the grain a bit, and that's not even accounting for the limited belief choices and no missionaries. Keep in mind, this is with what I'd consider "good" gameplay, and only on King. If I can have ideal conditions, yet still struggle to firmly establish the necessary pressure with a civ whose entire kit relies on religious seniority, then I'm not so sure the current buff will be enough (especially for AI India who's very prone to early human missionary spam). This is still just a first impression with small sample size, but I'm doubtful the new system is going to provide the required Unph.
On a positive note, my first game had already been tainted by a forward settling Zulu who ended up taking one of my cities after a prolonged assault. It's almost unheard of for Supreme Leader to lose cities on King within the first 75 turns, so kudos again to the VP crew for the continued improvements to AI diplo + strategy.
*I will finally agree with @Stalker0 that World Wonders do seem to be all over the board right now, though I must admit that I kind of like the variance and true randomness as to when / if opposing civs are engaged in wonder races. I also assume this is in part due to Recursive's tweaks to AI flavors alongside build orders / priorities generally becoming more and more refined, which is a good thing.
Considering India is one of the most religious focused civs, it still kinda feels like your fighting against the grain a bit, and that's not even accounting for the limited belief choices and no missionaries. Keep in mind, this is with what I'd consider "good" gameplay, and only on King. If I can have ideal conditions, yet still struggle to firmly establish the necessary pressure with a civ whose entire kit relies on religious seniority, then I'm not so sure the current buff will be enough (especially for AI India who's very prone to early human missionary spam). This is still just a first impression with small sample size, but I'm doubtful the new system is going to provide the required Unph.
On a positive note, my first game had already been tainted by a forward settling Zulu who ended up taking one of my cities after a prolonged assault. It's almost unheard of for Supreme Leader to lose cities on King within the first 75 turns, so kudos again to the VP crew for the continued improvements to AI diplo + strategy.
*I will finally agree with @Stalker0 that World Wonders do seem to be all over the board right now, though I must admit that I kind of like the variance and true randomness as to when / if opposing civs are engaged in wonder races. I also assume this is in part due to Recursive's tweaks to AI flavors alongside build orders / priorities generally becoming more and more refined, which is a good thing.
So this is a scenario where the AI's production bonus really does feel so damn unfair.
So China forward settled me and started the war drums. I managed to get a few cities down and started mass Atlatist production. I have killed 5 swords, 2 archers, and a handful of spears....aka basically my full supply worth. And yet China has managed 3 world wonders and still has this massive army.
The trick is, even if I win this war, the rest of the AIs are just blitzing ahead right now, so I will still be way behind.
I've mentioned the thought of changing ABC bonuses to be a little less A, and a little more B, and where is an area showcasing the utility. Its always in the first 120 turns or so, before the human can really start to get infrastructure and a bigger army going, so that they can leverage their more efficient tactics to start really competing. Before that, the AI can just completely outtech and outproduce you in every way. If you have the time to respond its not so bad, but in cases like these it just feels overwhelming.
Spoiler :
So China forward settled me and started the war drums. I managed to get a few cities down and started mass Atlatist production. I have killed 5 swords, 2 archers, and a handful of spears....aka basically my full supply worth. And yet China has managed 3 world wonders and still has this massive army.
The trick is, even if I win this war, the rest of the AIs are just blitzing ahead right now, so I will still be way behind.
I've mentioned the thought of changing ABC bonuses to be a little less A, and a little more B, and where is an area showcasing the utility. Its always in the first 120 turns or so, before the human can really start to get infrastructure and a bigger army going, so that they can leverage their more efficient tactics to start really competing. Before that, the AI can just completely outtech and outproduce you in every way. If you have the time to respond its not so bad, but in cases like these it just feels overwhelming.
psparky
King
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2011
- Messages
- 623
I think the trick might be to keep such cities very small, maybe even just size one, until they flip. Before that, each growth is adding to the accumulated atheist pressure that must be overcome. Once it's flipped, the growth will add to the religion pressure instead.
@Kim Dong Un
Im playing as India (immortal, standard, standard). Seems fine to me. I think the key is to pump your pop as fast as possible. I went for the +1 food +1 faith on shrines and bonus growth pantheon then mandirs. Im even forcing inquisitors out of neighbours. I then went for cathedrals and enhancer that gives extra distance for pressure and bonus from trade routes.
Im playing as India (immortal, standard, standard). Seems fine to me. I think the key is to pump your pop as fast as possible. I went for the +1 food +1 faith on shrines and bonus growth pantheon then mandirs. Im even forcing inquisitors out of neighbours. I then went for cathedrals and enhancer that gives extra distance for pressure and bonus from trade routes.
Gizmoman
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2020
- Messages
- 154
India still pretty much gets ran over if your neighbour decides to send missionaries towards you.
LifeOfBrian
King
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2019
- Messages
- 757
Agreed that the India's change isn't that great because of the cities you settle in the t60-t100 period. So I'll reiterate my proposal to give India a few missionaries upon founding.
I think Culture Victory is still over tuned. It's turn 330 on a deity game. The AI is en route to win the CV. I think its early relative to the other victory conditions at the moment.
@CrazyG showed a Brazil game where it would win around turn 270ish. That's too early, as science victories have been slowed by spy nerfs.
@CrazyG showed a Brazil game where it would win around turn 270ish. That's too early, as science victories have been slowed by spy nerfs.
youngsteve
Prince
This seems true on all levels. I think the biggest problem, certainly in the games I have seen, is that all the civs have a love in with the runaway civ going for a culture victory & only react when they are really powerful & near to victory. This doesn't happen with other victory types.
Part of that was because Zoos gave forests 2 tourism on that patch. Also partially because on spies, given how low impact they are, putting a diplomat in their capital is pretty appealing. Previously you had to give up a lot of science to do it.
The effect of my diplo flavor changes on AI build orders is very small. You'd have to talk to @Gazebo about it.
CS units can't enter a Barbarian camp tile. VP rule to prevent them from canceling the quest themselves.
Still not permitted.
BornDownUnder
Warlord
Can we perhaps get a community switch to toggle that off? I've had 2 CS fall in a game to barbarians as a result (The barbarians just keep multiplying, note I do have barbarians enhanced) they had 3 camps nearby for one, I had not discovered the other by the time they fell.
Gizmoman
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2020
- Messages
- 154
Fairly certain Barbarians can't conquer cities at all, at least I've never seen it happen.
However the quest, barbarian invasion, automatically conquers the city if it's not cleared before the time runs out.
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