A case of Western propaganda

[SS-18 ICBM]

I thought Der Spiegel was a good news magazine.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I thought Der Spiegel was a good news magazine.

The key word there may be 'was'.

 

[Tahuti]

I thought Der Spiegel was a good news magazine.

The difference between 'quality news' and tabloids is merely use of language. The former may attract a more educated reader base though the problems are still the same.

 

[plarq]

I think this is Putin's plot to discredit the quality of German and British newspapers.

You implied they have credits to begin with?

But reading Pravda's news along with nude women...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But reading Pravda's news along with nude women...

Having nude women read along with you improves the experience no matter what the quality of the material.

 

[Tahuti]

You implied they have credits to begin with?

They have for too many people for too long.

 

[plarq]

Having nude women read along with you improves the experience no matter what the quality of the material.

Patriotic rhetoric with erotic implications.

Now I understand profanity's affiliation with nationalism.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

The difference between 'quality news' and tabloids is merely use of language.

I must have missed all the scantily-clad women in the issues of the Economist I've read over the years.

 

[Tahuti]

I must have missed all the scantily-clad women in the issues of the Economist I've read over the years.

The Economist repeats what the others have been saying in different langauge and vice versa. There is such control over flow of information in the West by decentrally yet systematically discrediting all those who appear outside the mainstream. They form a nameless unaccountable bloc that controls Western politics. It is worrisome.

The perniciousness of Western media that appears to be objective because challengers are never physically threatened, just not taken seriously.

 

[plarq]

There is such control over flow of information in the West by decentrally yet systematically discrediting all those who appear outside the mainstream. They form a nameless unaccountable bloc that controls Western politics.

It is called consensus. If consensus does not exist, i.e. polarization in public political opinions, crisis will follow.

In other words, liberal democracy only works when people don't disagree with each other strongly.

 

[gay_Aleks]

So has Putin sealed up Time's Man of the Year award yet or what?

If Obama can get Nobel Prize for Peace without doing all too much, I'm sure that Putin can get a lifetime subscription.

 

[Yeekim]

Yes, it was unfortunate, collateral damage. Now, please think about how that collateral damage came to be and why is a full-scale war currently being fought in Europe.

 

[Daw]

Yes, it was unfortunate, collateral damage. Now, please think about how that collateral damage came to be and why is a full-scale war currently being fought in Europe.

Because the western-supported anti-constitutional coup happened on 22-Feb in Kiev. Plain simple.

 

[brennan]

Why do people say that when when we are holding Putin to account for what happened, we mean that he ordered the strike? The fact of the matter is that Putin gives support to the rebels, both financially and with supplies for the fight. He could have not done a thing and this situation would be dead and buried and no plane would have been shot down because there would be no more fighting sinc the rebels would have lost a long time ago.

So because a few a-holes do something bad, the millions of Ukrainians who want to be Russians should have their desire for self determination ignored?

I mean that's what this is all about. Quite a lot of people in the East of Ukraine do not want to be Ukrainians.

It's appalling that there has been so much bloodshed over this, but the basic underlying issue is one of self determination. The same as in the former Yugoslav states, and Kurdistan and the middle East.

If people want to redraw their borders, I think there's a mature argument for letting them vote on it and respecting their wishes, not slagging them off and calling them terrorists when they want a right everyone here takes for granted.

 

[Tahuti]

So because a few a-holes do something bad, the millions of Ukrainians who want to be Russians should have their desire for self determination ignored?

I mean that's what this is all about. Quite a lot of people in the East of Ukraine do not want to be Ukrainians.

It's appalling that there has been so much bloodshed over this, but the basic underlying issue is one of self determination. The same as in the former Yugoslav states, and Kurdistan and the middle East.

If people want to redraw their borders, I think there's a mature argument for letting them vote on it and respecting their wishes, not slagging them off and calling them terrorists when they want a right everyone here takes for granted.

Well, hear hear.

 

[Farm Boy]

I'm kinda glad to see collateral damage viewed as something someone is at least indirectly responsible for, rather than "just one of those things."

The days of soldiers - or the intentional victims of soldiers - being for the most part the only people hurt during a conflict are long past. When you start ... or simply encourage ... armed conflict you're dooming a lot of innocent bystanders to death and suffering. You can try to minimize it, but it's inevitable.

Now the principle needs to be applied universally, rather than as a convenient club to beat someone we didn't like anyway.

Damned skippy.

It is kind of hard to not come off as a condescending jackass if almost everything that is wrong with Germany is even worse in the USA

So it's hard not to come off as a condescending jackass when you are actually a condescending jackass? Heheh.

 

[Yeekim]

Because the western-supported anti-constitutional coup happened on 22-Feb in Kiev. Plain simple.

So why did the ouster of one particular crook have such harsh results? Strelkov isn't fighting to reinstall Januk, as far as I can tell, btw.

@brennan
Right of self-determination is something I hold very important. I am on record advocating Czechoslovakia-type solution for Ukraine as early as last year. But that does not involve a bunch of opportunists with zero legitimacy, (including foreign nationals), jumping the gun and forcing the issue through in a bogus (both because the question was far from clear and the poll had no independent oversight whatsoever)referendum over a fortnight.

 

[Daw]

So why did the ouster of one particular crook have such harsh results? Strelkov isn't fighting to reinstall Januk, as far as I can tell, btw.

The ouster of this particular crook had such harsh results in this particular region because the said crook was born in the said region, supported mostly in that region and also was conducting politics meeting the expectations of the people from that region. Besides, I don't think fighting a civil war was their initial plan, but they were left no choice when the crooks who ousted the ousted crook got as friendly and reasonable as it took them to start their little ATO.

They don't fight to reinstall Januk because they have neither the power nor, I suspect, wish to take Kiev. They just want out of the madness (i.e. they want independence).

 

[classical_hero]

So because a few a-holes do something bad, the millions of Ukrainians who want to be Russians should have their desire for self determination ignored?

I mean that's what this is all about. Quite a lot of people in the East of Ukraine do not want to be Ukrainians.

It's appalling that there has been so much bloodshed over this, but the basic underlying issue is one of self determination. The same as in the former Yugoslav states, and Kurdistan and the middle East.

If people want to redraw their borders, I think there's a mature argument for letting them vote on it and respecting their wishes, not slagging them off and calling them terrorists when they want a right everyone here takes for granted.

Have you ever heard of Immigration? They could immigrate if they want to be Russian. They could have done this democratically, but they decided to do it by violence.

 

[LamaGT]

Have you ever heard of Immigration? They could immigrate if they want to be Russian. They could have done this democratically, but they decided to do it by violence.

So I take it you're a supporter of ethnic cleansing?
They did want to do it democratically. The government didn't let them.