A case of Western propaganda

[warpus]

Can't be propaganda unless the government is pushing the paper to print that.

Or am I wrong about what propaganda is?

As for British tabloids, they have been printing sensationalist crap for a while now, there's no surprise there. They have managed to be more sensationalist than American "news" sources, somehow.

Much as I hate Putin, he didn't do this. His rebels did, and then on accident, and while it's still criminal incompetence, we shouldn't be blaming him for this. No, there are many other things to hate him for.

He's the only one who could have prevented it from happening, by ending the conflict before the plane went down. It could have been ended weeks, if not months ago. The only reason the rebels keep going is because they have support from Moscow.

And sure, Putin didn't know what they were going to do.. but he's indirectly responsible for their actions by supporting them with intelligence and heavy weaponry.

He can stop this conflict now if he wants to. But he doesn't.

 

[Phrossack]

It is kind of hard to not come off as a condescending jackass if almost everything that is wrong with Germany is even worse in the USA

True, besides the stupid carbonated water (seriously: what the hell?) and the alarming lack of nature and wildlife. It's just odd to see how Germans beat up on all things American like we ran over their dog or something while at the same time they voraciously consume all things American. Fast food, clothing, soda, games, vocabulary (to the point that half the vocabulary seems to be English these days), and so many movies, songs, and shows that Germans barely bother making any of their own.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Much as I hate Putin, he didn't do this. His rebels did, and then on accident, and while it's still criminal incompetence, we shouldn't be blaming him for this. No, there are many other things to hate him for.

Yes AMEN that is the motherheaving gist of it. You beautifully spout that out in simple but clear teams. So why is not everyone understanding this the instance they click their brains on?

It makes me want to go Eminem on their asses.

Link to video.

I'll admit that I'm kinda satisfied to see that even the Germans aren't perfect, though.

My Germophile friend - if I watched as much German news television as I could vomit I would vomit more than I can breath.
That said - the instance I switch on CNN international I go into immediate seizure.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Pretty much all hard copy media is being driven the way of the tabloid, everywhere in the world. If you want to know the reason, you're looking at it.

Pretty much all categories of information are available from the internet. For current news clearly the hard copy media cannot compete with instantaneous. For detailed analysis they can't compete on volume with endless. They can't compete with the wild nonsense available either, but people who are interested in wild nonsense generally can't get enough.

 

[Phrossack]

We love to blame the media for its own low quality, and they're part of the problem to be sure, but I'd place most blame on the consumers. After all, it's their money that rewards terrible media and their lack of interest in quality news that discourages that. From the media producers' point of view, why work hard to minimize bias and cover important issues when doing so means losing viewers? Why not cover celebrities and stir people into emotional frenzies when that makes you money?

 

[red_elk]

I think this is Putin's plot to discredit the quality of German and British newspapers.

 

[brennan]

I blame capitalism. There's so much more money in pandering to the desire for black and white sensationalism than there is in being intelligent.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I blame capitalism.

Can't go wrong with that one.

 

[Kyriakos]

I wanted to post a youtube video of an embarrassed laugh

 

[Timsup2nothin]

We love to blame the media for its own low quality, and they're part of the problem to be sure, but I'd place most blame on the consumers. After all, it's their money that rewards terrible media and their lack of interest in quality news that discourages that. From the media producers' point of view, why work hard to minimize bias and cover important issues when doing so means losing viewers? Why not cover celebrities and stir people into emotional frenzies when that makes you money?

This fits with what I said, but you lumped everyone into that 'consumers'. Consumers who do have an interest in quality news certainly exist, it's just that they have been very successfully competed for so the print and TV media is left with those who aren't.

 

[classical_hero]

He's the only one who could have prevented it from happening, by ending the conflict before the plane went down. It could have been ended weeks, if not months ago. The only reason the rebels keep going is because they have support from Moscow.

And sure, Putin didn't know what they were going to do.. but he's indirectly responsible for their actions by supporting them with intelligence and heavy weaponry.

He can stop this conflict now if he wants to. But he doesn't.

Why do people say that when when we are holding Putin to account for what happened, we mean that he ordered the strike? The fact of the matter is that Putin gives support to the rebels, both financially and with supplies for the fight. He could have not done a thing and this situation would be dead and buried and no plane would have been shot down because there would be no more fighting sinc the rebels would have lost a long time ago.

 

[Samson]

It should be noted that british tabloids are hardly the most reputable.

Yeah, but the Telegraph is not a tabloid. Having this next to the red tops and not THAT much difference in the language I found illuminating.

 

[LoneRebel]

Yes, yes, Putin didn't get behind the wheel of that mobile SAM and shoot down the plane himself. He just provided it to the people who did.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

He just provided it to the people who did.

Hahaha...
Shall we really play the game of weapons? That smells like a dance which may spin your head my friend.

 

[Phrossack]

Yes, yes, Putin didn't get behind the wheel of that mobile SAM and shoot down the plane himself. He just provided it to the people who did.

Did he? I thought it was captured equipment.

 

[Tarquelne]

I'm kinda glad to see collateral damage viewed as something someone is at least indirectly responsible for, rather than "just one of those things."

The days of soldiers - or the intentional victims of soldiers - being for the most part the only people hurt during a conflict are long past. When you start ... or simply encourage ... armed conflict you're dooming a lot of innocent bystanders to death and suffering. You can try to minimize it, but it's inevitable.

Now the principle needs to be applied universally, rather than as a convenient club to beat someone we didn't like anyway.

It is kind of hard to not come off as a condescending jackass if almost everything that is wrong with Germany is even worse in the USA

Especially if in the US it's part of a major party's platform.

OTOH...

And the lies got more complex. The Russian fiction that a Ukrainian fighter jet had fired the missile ran into the problem that the jet could not fly at the altitude of MH17, so Russian hackers then changed a Wikipedia entry to say that the jets could briefly do so.

That just shows how sophisticated the Palestinian hackers are.

What ... you guys thought they were different conspiracies?
They hate our freedom, you know. Fluoridation remains is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Did he? I thought it was captured equipment.

I still think it was captured equipment, but that has been addressed in another thread...

Well, a few other threads.

 

[LamaGT]

Can't be propaganda unless the government is pushing the paper to print that.

Or am I wrong about what propaganda is?

As for British tabloids, they have been printing sensationalist crap for a while now, there's no surprise there. They have managed to be more sensationalist than American "news" sources, somehow.



He's the only one who could have prevented it from happening, by ending the conflict before the plane went down. It could have been ended weeks, if not months ago. The only reason the rebels keep going is because they have support from Moscow.

And sure, Putin didn't know what they were going to do.. but he's indirectly responsible for their actions by supporting them with intelligence and heavy weaponry.

He can stop this conflict now if he wants to. But he doesn't.

I blame the people who started the ATO. So much death and destruction could have been avoided if only the Ukrainians granted the referendum right away. It would have likely failed, but even if it was successful this could have helped Ukraine achieve internal stability and cohesion.

Also, Putin has often appealed to de-escalate the violence and start negotiations. Though apparently Poroshenko didn't want to negotiate with "terrorists", probably believing that he will crush the rebellion soon. Putin is making sure Poroshenko will be dead wrong.

 

[~Corsair#01~]

Wow British CFCers, you need to explain yourselves on this one .

There are three news outlets in the UK worth mentioning: the Independent, the Guardian and the BBC.

Reading something other than those three is like getting your news from graffiti scrawled inside a toilet cubicle.

 

[Tahuti]

There are three news outlets in the UK worth mentioning: the Independent, the Guardian and the BBC.

Reading something other than those three is like getting your news from graffiti scrawled inside a toilet cubicle.

Actually, even these three have some very annoying biases that are also blatantly obvious.

I have been abstaining from news most of the times. Whenever I get news shoved onto me, I usually treat it with some deserved emotional distance. One major problem of the West is how the media more or less censors politics. It sounds weird, though it is what actually happens.