A fun game of Kublai!
- Thread starter krikav
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Fippy
Mycro Junkie
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You can get some gold for maps (50 from Rags, tiny amounts from Giggles and Willy but all helps) for Chem in 2t.
Marble from Peter and milking some NE epic gold with whip overflow looks like a possibility (but difficult to give advice with how exactly when not playing yourself
).
Unit costs are so high that i would disband those scouts, and use a Cara if you want Willy's ports watched.
Expanding into more island cities and planning a cannons attack are usually not mixing well together, but you could skip building upgrade units (like Trebs) and whip/draft all real units later.
Maces, Jumbos or any other cannon support will not do here imo..they will be so advanced later that you need a real solid Rifles + Cannons force.
In this case more (good) far away cities can help if they get ready.
Marble from Peter and milking some NE epic gold with whip overflow looks like a possibility (but difficult to give advice with how exactly when not playing yourself
).Unit costs are so high that i would disband those scouts, and use a Cara if you want Willy's ports watched.
Expanding into more island cities and planning a cannons attack are usually not mixing well together, but you could skip building upgrade units (like Trebs) and whip/draft all real units later.
Maces, Jumbos or any other cannon support will not do here imo..they will be so advanced later that you need a real solid Rifles + Cannons force.
In this case more (good) far away cities can help if they get ready.
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@Fippy
I do have my own source of marble and can probably hook it up in a hurry, but I'm not sure about locations for epics, and it would take some time to get cash out of such a project. And most cities stand to gain from using whip overflow for other stuff too.
Any ideas on where to place epics?
I have a hard time saying no to settling more islands when they are available, but yes I do feel like it takes an early attack off the table.
I think I agree on whip/drafting later, for any upgrade trickery to work I would need way stronger commerce, or a burst of GMerchants, but I feel like that would be aeons in the future.
I do have my own source of marble and can probably hook it up in a hurry, but I'm not sure about locations for epics, and it would take some time to get cash out of such a project. And most cities stand to gain from using whip overflow for other stuff too.
Any ideas on where to place epics?
I have a hard time saying no to settling more islands when they are available, but yes I do feel like it takes an early attack off the table.
I think I agree on whip/drafting later, for any upgrade trickery to work I would need way stronger commerce, or a burst of GMerchants, but I feel like that would be aeons in the future.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
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Double fish east would be the obvious NE spot.
While other cities create some failgold you get time to grow and whip forge into NE later, then harbor which creates great overflow hammers with only 1h invested.
Library first thou..almost forgot, oh well.
Galleon could be used for forge overflow, so you need only size 6.
Immediately move 2 warriors from Old Sarai over, one into New Sarai where warrior leaves this turn as well and gets replaced.
3 units should hopefully be enuf.
When it's happy +10 food will get all those whips done in reasonable time..not in great time cos of that library, but workable.
While other cities create some failgold you get time to grow and whip forge into NE later, then harbor which creates great overflow hammers with only 1h invested.
Library first thou..almost forgot, oh well.
Galleon could be used for forge overflow, so you need only size 6.
Immediately move 2 warriors from Old Sarai over, one into New Sarai where warrior leaves this turn as well and gets replaced.
3 units should hopefully be enuf.
When it's happy +10 food will get all those whips done in reasonable time..not in great time cos of that library, but workable.
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No autosaves at all from first try, and in the autosave folder now I think it's only from second try, but they only seem to be at BC1000 and upwards.
I should try to make a habit of copying the autosave folder whenever I swap games, I wanted to go back to 1AD too and study abit but that was gone. :|
I'm not sure that this map is the best one to study for iso really, it seems to be quite unusual (or maybe it's just that I haven't played low sea level that much?).
Barbs almost never cause this much troubles unless very unlucky.
Expansion in iso I usually feel is quite similar to maps with AIs close by, up uptill 3rd city or so. After that there is usually a delay until writing when you go up to 5-6.
On this map, I was at two for a very long time, I think this is because BW was delayed (not much production) and the demand for lots of protection.
And also the libraries up early.
Regarding pace of barb defense vs pace of expansion.
I try to be greedy, but not as greedy as in normal games.
Security is paramount.
There was a Mao iso game that Lain played, that I did a shadow on, and on that map I did settle inlands and go for warrior defence, while Lain settled in place and went archery. (I had the benefit of knowing prior that it was iso, don't know if I would have wandered that far if not).
In that game, just as one example, I built a truckload of warriors even before second city.
Save 100-150 beakers in archery is good, but then one has to put some hold on the greed. To pay back 50 gold in warrior upkeep for a while, once getting the island secured is still a win!
But as I think is obvious from my first attempt, I was completely crushed by upkeep in my efforts to establish dominance of the island.
The advice from Fippy to be abit less greedy with city spot locations too, and only take what you can keep (easily) was really sound imho.
I should try to make a habit of copying the autosave folder whenever I swap games, I wanted to go back to 1AD too and study abit but that was gone. :|
I'm not sure that this map is the best one to study for iso really, it seems to be quite unusual (or maybe it's just that I haven't played low sea level that much?).
Barbs almost never cause this much troubles unless very unlucky.
Expansion in iso I usually feel is quite similar to maps with AIs close by, up uptill 3rd city or so. After that there is usually a delay until writing when you go up to 5-6.
On this map, I was at two for a very long time, I think this is because BW was delayed (not much production) and the demand for lots of protection.
And also the libraries up early.
Spoiler Barbs :
Regarding pace of barb defense vs pace of expansion.
I try to be greedy, but not as greedy as in normal games.
Security is paramount.
There was a Mao iso game that Lain played, that I did a shadow on, and on that map I did settle inlands and go for warrior defence, while Lain settled in place and went archery. (I had the benefit of knowing prior that it was iso, don't know if I would have wandered that far if not).
In that game, just as one example, I built a truckload of warriors even before second city.
Save 100-150 beakers in archery is good, but then one has to put some hold on the greed. To pay back 50 gold in warrior upkeep for a while, once getting the island secured is still a win!
But as I think is obvious from my first attempt, I was completely crushed by upkeep in my efforts to establish dominance of the island.
The advice from Fippy to be abit less greedy with city spot locations too, and only take what you can keep (easily) was really sound imho.
Thanks, especially that T57 screenshot is helpful! Having only two cities and 3rd city so many turns away would make me feel uncomfortable about my expansion, but of course both fog busting andare excellent.
The settlers are even further away than they look! I changed plan after BW came in, and chopped/built two more workers (got up to 40) and only went on a settler-spree after teching math.
Think I have this in my T83 update. The third city settler game out T69.
Oh thanks for reminding, I might have missed some of the earlier updates, because didn't want to get spoiled.
Had a go at this map! Deity is out of my comfort zone, deity isolation even more so and this map....wow!
I had followed @krikav's updates until optics so I knew the overall scheme, but I hadn't studied them closely in terms of position of resources etc (as I was about to find out).
Scout saw the rice and so I decided to settle north to that plains hill, keeping 2 x sheep but picking up the rice as well. In hindsight, not a great capital position as makes other city spots awkward. Early tech path was Agr->AH->Pottery->Mining->BW->writing. Decided to ignore archery like the crazy maverick I am.
The plan I had in my head was: Karakorum grow to size 5 and just build settlers and workers at the happy cap. Beshbalik grow slowly using hill sheep and PH mine and just build warriors.
This was actually the high point of the barb invasion: although spears came along not long after, there are plenty of forested hills to fortify on, and combined with AGG, a barracks and some good luck I think warrior defence is the way to go here. (as a side note, really wish I settled Beshbalik 1W so I could share the other sheep).
I had followed @krikav's updates until optics so I knew the overall scheme, but I hadn't studied them closely in terms of position of resources etc (as I was about to find out).
Scout saw the rice and so I decided to settle north to that plains hill, keeping 2 x sheep but picking up the rice as well. In hindsight, not a great capital position as makes other city spots awkward. Early tech path was Agr->AH->Pottery->Mining->BW->writing. Decided to ignore archery like the crazy maverick I am.
Spoiler T50 situation :
The plan I had in my head was: Karakorum grow to size 5 and just build settlers and workers at the happy cap. Beshbalik grow slowly using hill sheep and PH mine and just build warriors.
This was actually the high point of the barb invasion: although spears came along not long after, there are plenty of forested hills to fortify on, and combined with AGG, a barracks and some good luck I think warrior defence is the way to go here. (as a side note, really wish I settled Beshbalik 1W so I could share the other sheep).
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2013
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I think you will have to use Infs here, they can handle anything in large numbers (and with Agg too).
Tanks are ofc good but a luxury with so many coastal cities, much cheaper siege based armies should do.
Arti would be great with Infs, but Cannons are okay too for starters.
Should sort your cap for max food (taking sheep back, green cottages).
During the golden age food can be dropped in favor of plains cottages, but currently not growing here in preparation would seem like a huge mistake.
Things will look much brighter with a golden age and great Civic switches.
Your plans are a bit spread out this game, but you can still capitalize.
Needed: stronger Cap - Corporation - SP (Commies) - AL.
Anything else: not so important.
Tanks are ofc good but a luxury with so many coastal cities, much cheaper siege based armies should do.
Arti would be great with Infs, but Cannons are okay too for starters.
Should sort your cap for max food (taking sheep back, green cottages).
During the golden age food can be dropped in favor of plains cottages, but currently not growing here in preparation would seem like a huge mistake.
Things will look much brighter with a golden age and great Civic switches.
Your plans are a bit spread out this game, but you can still capitalize.
Needed: stronger Cap - Corporation - SP (Commies) - AL.
Anything else: not so important.
