A reminder to go and vote

[podraza]

I want to defend the idea that you can refrain from voting and still complain.

I think the amended version of this idea should be that if you don't bother to familiarize yourself with politics, then you shouldn't complain. But I'm quite familiar, and said familiarity has led me to believe that the best statement I can make on election day is to not vote, to not lend any legitimacy to a process that I believe is illegitimate. And when the process is over, and the winners start doing things to me that I don't like, I think I have the right to complain.

Note that it does not really matter if you think I am wrong in my assesment of the process as illegitimate. As long as I believe this, then I think I can still complain without being some sort of hypocrite or whatever it is the non-voting complainers are supposed to be.

Which isn't to say all of you shouldn't go out and vote if that's what you want to do. I just hate this slogan and find it to be widely accepted without much critical thought.

 

[Godwynn]

I voted at 8 this morning! And damn it feels good.

 

[bhsup]

Oh my. You're right, I never really saw it before, but after you said that it's rather unmistakable. Talent does indeed look like Waldo!

Now if you'll excuse me, it's time for me to go outside, wrap my lips around the butt of a camel, and suck hard. (smoke break!)

 

[Murky]

I want to defend the idea that you can refrain from voting and still complain.

I think the amended version of this idea should be that if you don't bother to familiarize yourself with politics, then you shouldn't complain. But I'm quite familiar, and said familiarity has led me to believe that the best statement I can make on election day is to not vote, to not lend any legitimacy to a process that I believe is illegitimate. And when the process is over, and the winners start doing things to me that I don't like, I think I have the right to complain.

Note that it does not really matter if you think I am wrong in my assesment of the process as illegitimate. As long as I believe this, then I think I can still complain without being some sort of hypocrite or whatever it is the non-voting complainers are supposed to be.

Which isn't to say all of you shouldn't go out and vote if that's what you want to do. I just hate this slogan and find it to be widely accepted without much critical thought.

I think it's wrong to go and vote when you haven't done your homework on the candidates and the issues just so you can say you voted. You shouldn't base your decisions on soundbites or tv commercials.

The surest way to not have your vote count is to not vote at all. I think it's our civic duty to learn about the candidates and issues and make good choices about where you stand prior to the election. Then vote.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Now if you'll excuse me, it's time for me to go outside, wrap my lips around the butt of a camel, and suck hard.

I've heard of weird fetishes before, but . . .

 

[IglooDame]

I want to defend the idea that you can refrain from voting and still complain.

I think the amended version of this idea should be that if you don't bother to familiarize yourself with politics, then you shouldn't complain. But I'm quite familiar, and said familiarity has led me to believe that the best statement I can make on election day is to not vote, to not lend any legitimacy to a process that I believe is illegitimate. And when the process is over, and the winners start doing things to me that I don't like, I think I have the right to complain.

Note that it does not really matter if you think I am wrong in my assesment of the process as illegitimate. As long as I believe this, then I think I can still complain without being some sort of hypocrite or whatever it is the non-voting complainers are supposed to be.

Which isn't to say all of you shouldn't go out and vote if that's what you want to do. I just hate this slogan and find it to be widely accepted without much critical thought.

I think that avoiding lending any legitimacy to a process would be actively objecting to it in some way (perhaps going to a polling place holding a sign that says "the process is illegitimate"), given that your current method of objection can and will be lost amongst the 99% of eligible voters that haven't voted because they couldn't be arsed.

 

[podraza]

I think that avoiding lending any legitimacy to a process would be actively objecting to it in some way (perhaps going to a polling place holding a sign that says "the process is illegitimate"), given that your current method of objection can and will be lost amongst the 99% of eligible voters that haven't voted because they couldn't be arsed.

I suppose its all in the eye of the beholder. I happen to enjoy the fact that Americans have particularly low rates of voter turnout exactly because it goes to discredit the idea that the elected politicians speak and act for "the people". I realize that by not voting, I'm not doing much to destroy the system I oppose, but my nonvote is no less effective than my vote would be. Either way, what I do will change absolutely nothing.

 

[Mark1031]

I voted on my first DIebold machine. It worked very well as was supposedly printing a paper copy but the paper never came out to verify. I would have been much happier if it had. I asked the poll worker and she said that it was supposed to remain internal to the machine. I also asked her if this was where my vote was switched to Republican and she verified that it was.

 

[spankey]

I suppose its all in the eye of the beholder. I happen to enjoy the fact that Americans have particularly low rates of voter turnout exactly because it goes to discredit the idea that the elected politicians speak and act for "the people". I realize that by not voting, I'm not doing much to destroy the system I oppose, but my nonvote is no less effective than my vote would be. Either way, what I do will change absolutely nothing.

Just curious in a public way. Do you want direct democracy for all governmental actions or are you Don Quixotic? Do you have a better system to which we can evolve?

 

[podraza]

I think it's wrong to go and vote when you haven't done your homework on the candidates and the issues just so you can say you voted. You shouldn't base your decisions on soundbites or tv commercials.

The surest way to not have your vote count is to not vote at all. I think it's our civic duty to learn about the candidates and issues and make good choices about where you stand prior to the election. Then vote.

This sounds fine for somebody who believes in the legitimacy of majority rule. Without getting too deep into it, I just don't believe that so many aspects of my life should be subject to the control of these politicians in the first place. In other words, I don't think these issues (or the politicians who represent these issues) should be up for a vote at all. So I have no desire to take part in the vote.

And I don't believe in civic duties.

Again, none of which is to say anything other than nonvoting people can and should still complain when the government screws them over.

 

[IglooDame]

I suppose its all in the eye of the beholder. I happen to enjoy the fact that Americans have particularly low rates of voter turnout exactly because it goes to discredit the idea that the elected politicians speak and act for "the people". I realize that by not voting, I'm not doing much to destroy the system I oppose, but my nonvote is no less effective than my vote would be. Either way, what I do will change absolutely nothing.

Fair enough, but then you've not done anything to sway me from my "Don't vote? Don't whine!" view.

@Mark: Did it really print out without you seeing it?

 

[Mark1031]

@Mark: Did it really print out without you seeing it?

Yes this was in San Diego. It looked and sounded like it was printing on a roll of thermal paper. But in no way was this visible. It was a Diebold machine.

 

[MobBoss]

BALLOT INITIATIVE --That only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions.
--Uhh...no.

Whats your feeling on this one? Although you are voting no on it, do you think it will pass as it has in most other states?

 

[podraza]

Just curious in a public way. Do you want direct democracy for all governmental actions or are you Don Quixotic? Do you have a better system to which we can evolve?

Well I suppose I'm generally libertarian. I'd like to see a narrower set of government responsibilities and I'd like to see them executed at the most local level possible.

As the voting pool becomes smaller and smaller, the power and meaning of the vote becomes greater and greater. My parents are 2 votes out of 20 in their condo association. That's some decent power. But their votes in the US Presidential election? 2 out of 100 million? Its fantasy to pretend that they have any power or influence over the US Government. Moreover, their ability to influence the election is much greater in their condo association. They could go door to door and secure 10 votes in a few hours. What would it take to secure the votes of 50 million? Far more than they have. So they are powerless.

I think democracy works ok on the small scale. Not so much on the large.

 

[Xanikk999]

I havent done my homework so im just going to vote independent. I hope thats safe enough...

 

[podraza]

Fair enough, but then you've not done anything to sway me from my "Don't vote? Don't whine!" view.

@Mark: Did it really print out without you seeing it?

But if I went and held up the sign, that would sway you?

EDIT: Because I am here talking about it, which is sort of the same thing.

 

[JerichoHill]

Yes this was in San Diego. It looked and sounded like it was printing on a roll of thermal paper. But in no way was this visible. It was a Diebold machine.

Youre not supposed to be able to take it out of the precinct, thats why. people were worried about people paying for votes and using the receipts as proof

 

[JerichoHill]

Whats your feeling on this one? Although you are voting no on it, do you think it will pass as it has in most other states?

If Webb beats Allen, then it fails.
If Allen beats Webb, it passes.

All hinges on NoVa turnout.

I am leaving at 4 to go vote...Lines are 1-2 hours long...looks like very good turnout.

 

[Methos]

Voted at 6:55am this morning, was #142 in my precinct to vote.

Voted...
Yes on stem cell research
No on a cigarette tax increase
Yes on exemption for property tax for non-profit and veterans organizations
No on a local annexation issue
Yes on minimum wage increase
Yes to retain all by one judge (Price).
Talent for Senate
Various assorted other local races.

Since you're a fellow Missourian, here's how I voted.

No on stem cell research
Yes on cigarette tax (about the only time I vote yes on taxes)
Yes on exemption for property tax
Yes on minimum wage increase
Talent

... and the rest differs as I'm assuming we live in different parts of the state. My assumption is based on the fact that we did not have any annexation issues and you did. That's odd as we have had annexation issues in the past several elections. I guess they gave this one a breather.

 

[IglooDame]

Youre not supposed to be able to take it out of the precinct, thats why. people were worried about people paying for votes and using the receipts as proof

As opposed to people worrying about, say, the machine not recording their selections correctly.