Abandoned Stars - Discussion and Poll Thread

[Symphony D.]

Nice

The backstory had enough similarities to toss it in there, even if the hosts of the conference were a bunch of foolish matriarchs. The rest of it was sound enough, at least in theory.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

"El Cid"

!
Has the "Witty" trait. (Whenever a bad event would happen, the player may make a witty comment. If the comment is witty enough, the effects are negated.)
More seriously, Diplomatic would appear to be a fine trait for you, granting increased production and occasionally a random tech from allied systems.

Erik, can you give us a brief of the Republic or whatever Humanity existed in prior to the "fall" was like? Idelogies, social norms etc? Or is that at our discretion?

Local variation was fairly large, so you have a lot of discretion. If you say something that contradicts my cosmology and/or story, I'll try to just ignore it. (For example, having retained tech that I've placed somewhere down on the tech tree. And perhaps Symph's multiple systems allying from the start, though we can interpret them as being too unimportant to appear on the map.) Clones were used for a great deal of work, though this was impolite to talk about and one didn't publicly acknowledge that it happened. Popular pressure and a weakish Imperial Republic meant that mass opinion dictated more policy than it should have.

*sigh* I would also like to have my people on a Low "G" World, or system. Just so evolution can effect them but...the time periods too small :/

Genetic modification, ahoy. Just try to steer clear of the psychic powers.

Regarding tech:

Spoiler :

The tech tree is mostly worked out, with the last half of it probably being done under the influence. Starting categories are:
-Biotech
-Ship Armament
-Ship Defenses
-Societal Rediscoveries
-Technological Recovery
-Unit Redevelopment
Teaser: One of the advanced techs is:
-The Batman Doctrine
(You're free to rename all your own techs, if you think that names like Batman Doctrine are too silly. For example, Societal Rediscoveries might be Menendezian Population Theory after the head honcho of that field.)

Each starting area has two or three first-branch technologies, with no dead ends before the third tech in a sequence.

Symphony, the modular units are gone, but several techs are made for the purpose of allowing flex, and many of these are named "Modular Foo".

And now for a short presentation of an NPC faction:

The Army Of Clones
Evschlo, one of two planets (the other being a gas giant) in the Edlordi system, was a rich world, but horribly harsh. Diseases festered and brewed in the outlands and the seas, dust devils tore across the ground, lacerating 'most any surface with razor-sharp particles, and the heat could burn men to death even in the shade.
Obviously, clones were therefore used to mine the planet. They were grown in the usual vats, decanted after a month, and put to work at the age of two, as was standard practice. Plenty of the clones were demihumans. Production line workers were legless. They spent their day sorting items and pushing buttons. In the "evening" of the day lasting over 30 hours they would tip over and rest, and in the "morning" they would roll up again to continue their work. Others had various animal genes grafted into their systems for special purposes.
The average life expectancy for a clone was less than six years.
Three other groups of "real" humans inhabited the planet:
*The overseers, who had been afforded the luxury of well shielded quarters
*A religious group, the Jesites, who preached on the evils of disposable clones
*Some hardcore survivalists who practiced living on the roughest planets available in case of catastrophes.
One day the first and third group were gone, the second weakened, but the Jesites rejoiced as they freed the clones, who rapidly became rulers of Evschlo. The clones had been created with multiple dependencies on substances that the body normally produced by itself. This had been used by the overseers to ensure compliance by threatening to withhold the pills containing these substances, while at the same time forcing the clones to ingest various other chemicals that made them docile and pliant. Free from this after the discovery of stockpiles and dispensers, they chose #845074 as their leader, who took the name Bob. Bob then made the Jesites spiritual advisors and assistants to the clones. Bob's next great order was to continue the cloning - and to reach out to neighboring systems, showing that the clones had taken in pride what had been put on them as shame, and now they would continue this way.
The Jesites were chagrined. They had freed the clones from a serfdom as evil as it had been thought unchangeable, and now the clones would continue to inflict it upon themselves? Well... :shrug:
Evschlo's terrors had provided one advantage, though: The local equipment had been simple to a fault, so as to not break down in the local conditions. Only three AIs and the overseers had been supervising it. Most of it was still dead to the world a month later, but by then, enough of it had been cajoled into functionality that Bob, eight other clones, and a Jesite could take a patched-up scouting craft to the single handwavium gate that connected Edlordi to the Imperial Republic - sorry, what had been the Imperial Republic. This was only discovered later, though, as the lack of incoming signal was fairly common. Evschlo had exported rare materials. It received little in return.

 

[Symphony D.]

More seriously, Diplomatic would appear to be a fine trait for you, granting increased production and occasionally a random tech from allied systems.

I was thinking something along the lines of "Populist" but that sounds close enough. Is there a listing of traits you have devised, or are we free to make our own? I'll have to pick out a second trait and a flaw and have a few ideas running around in my head (flaw, at least, will be Bureaucratic - systems of control, representation, and authority limit ability to react and change; all these competing groups place a lot of checks and balances on one another).

([...] And perhaps Symph's multiple systems allying from the start, though we can interpret them as being too unimportant to appear on the map.)

Your example listed multiple systems, so it sounded like we were allowed one or two extra.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

You're free to make your own traits and specify what they'll apply to (techs, trade, random boosts, fleet, production, anything), but I have veto rights to adjust anything I think is mispowered.
EDIT: Although, to be proper, the voting isn't quite final, though +2/-1 is favored by 68% percent of the voters, so picking out another trait should be fine.

And the example I used was from mid-game, as I thought would be evident from the fact that they had contact, trade income, and a bunch of techs known.

 

[Symphony D.]

Well, there's not much chance for much in Eta Cassiopeiae or Alpha Centauri (as they're so close we'd notice major planets like Jupiter, which only leaves a few rocky ones) so you can probably just safely ignore them then.

 

[Azale]

I'm seeing some Star Wars references here on this thread, would a Droid army within a nation based on Trade be a plausible faction in this NES?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

It probably was, but then the smart people disappeared, the smart droids disappeared, and the trading partners disappeared.
Feel free to put in in your history, though.


EDIT: ADDITION:

Lots of stuff missing, but that's OK, as I'm sure people will demand that I add important things.

I'm off to work on the tech tree now. Please tell me all the stuff you think should be on there

I'm surprised to see nobody demanding that [Insert Favorite Thingy Here] be on the research list.

 

[Azale]

I'm not sure what I want to do though. I wanted a clone type thing, but thats NPC, so I shall search again. How weak is the Empire right now?

Tech
Option 2 - have multiple fields, the way StDarNes was, such as Robotics and Construction.

Galaxy size
Option 3 - 35-45 stars, large enough to explore, small enough to meet up.

Units
Option 1 - Numeric, as described previously, simple amounts of fleets and armies that represent what you want

Specialization
"Freeform" means that no factions have inherent bonuses, but differentiate themselves by ideology and stories.

 

[Disenfrancised]

EDIT: ADDITION:
I'm surprised to see nobody demanding that [Insert Favorite Thingy Here] be on the research list.

We can wait till you have a near final version, then complain - for optimal annoyingness .

 

[Symphony D.]

How weak is the Empire right now?

"Nonexistant" mean anything to you?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

How weak is the Empire right now?

The Imperial Republic is gone from all but memory and monument, to put more wordily than Symphony . (And to make it official.) Two-thirds of the population or more has disappeared in an average faction system, all of them gone from some worlds. This included nearly every government member, since they were implanted to be in contact with one another for more effective decision-making. (Not that it helped. ) You can play a group trying to re-establish it, though.

We can wait till you have a near final version, then complain - for optimal annoyingness .

Shall I take this as an encouragement to just pull the majority votes from the poll and declare them final? Problem is, poll doesn't say quite the same as the posters (The ever-active Symphony wanted modular units, whereas numeric units have half the vote), and numeric units are linked to having a single tech stat, but that option is losing 5 to 16 to a tree. The votes for galaxy size total 140%, but that's probably due to people voting on two neighboring options, which explains why the curve is so smooth. Also, Elvis Presley.

However: Since I have such a fun tech tree, I'll use a tech tree, darn it! But to compensate, I'll only tell the players about the general directions of research available, and then you can enjoy naming your own techs and drawing a tech tree. Early on, the tech tree looks like a set of fields, anyway.

I'll come up with final decisions and a starting template soon...

 

[Azash]

Cool idea. ANd that's all you're getting after I told you on MSN!

 

[Symphony D.]

Problem is, poll doesn't say quite the same as the posters (The ever-active Symphony wanted modular units, whereas numeric units have half the vote)

You pulled Modular, so what else can I vote for?

I still say an easy solution would be to make ground units Classic, and ships Modular. To keep down clutter, players are only allowed one design per hull-type at a time. No Navy builds 30 different types of Destroyer or Carrier; they build one, and then when it's outdated make a new one, and upgrade the old ones or phase them out and scrap them (or sell them, use them as reserves, whatever). Maximum flexibility where it's needed (space) and minimum hassle for it.

But you're the boss.

 

[Disenfrancised]

You pulled Modular, so what else can I vote for?

I still say an easy solution would be to make ground units Classic, and ships Modular. To keep down clutter, players are only allowed one design per hull-type at a time. No Navy builds 30 different types of Destroyer or Carrier; they build one, and then when it's outdated make a new one, and upgrade the old ones or phase them out and scrap them (or sell them, use them as reserves, whatever). Maximum flexibility where it's needed (space) and minimum hassle for it.

But you're the boss.

Nah - what if you want a missile destroyer and a lazer destroyer? As many designs as you like, just have developing a new one be really expensive (representing prototypes and all that jazz)

 

[TerrisH]

Symphony D, I did some Quick calculations, and, given a decent Tech base in matirial Science, which would be a given for actually being able to build a Beanstalk cheaply..

I'm getting about Five to Ten Million People per year per Beanstalk. and that's the conservitive Calculations. 1G acelreation (about 3-4 day trip), 250-500 per Train, and about 100km spaceing between them. heck, at a mere 100 people per Train, I'm getting 2 million.
I'm not sure about the Transit time though.. It's eather 3-4 days, of a week. not sure. and GeoSyncronys Orbit is at 36000km?? or was it 360000km?

 

[Kal'thzar]

The 36k Figure refers to km. I THINK its 36k.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Wiki: "A circular geosynchronous orbit in the plane of the Earth's equator has a radius of approximately 42,164 km (from the center of the Earth) or approximately 35,786 km (22,236 statute miles) above mean sea level."

Quick mockup of faction stats, drafty as it is. Lots of stuff missing, but that's OK, as I'm sure people will demand that I add important things.

Nobody demanded I add things.
So here's the approximate write-up that alex994 will be using, as he told me over AIM.

Yet Another Alexian Faction, Recognizable By The Fact That It Is A China Ripoff (YAAFRBTFTIIACR)
Leader: Emperor Dian (Dian Di) /alex994
Home system: Tian (2 handwavium gates)
Attributes: Heavenly Mandate (Increases stability, making revolts less likely), Scientific (Techs begun but left idle accumulate free research points), Moral Objections (Biotech costs twice as much to research)
Stability: 80%
Production: 40 (40 from Tian), 0 banked
Trade: None
Travel speed: 1 gate/turn
Known systems:

Tian (home system) producing 40/turn, maximum capacity 70.
2 unknowns bordering Tian​

Army and Fleet deployment:

Spoiler :

Tian: 1000 infantry, 3 "Ant" class Scouts, 70 "Sparrow" class Fighters, 1 "Wolf" class Cruiser
Note: As you have no Carriers, neither your infantry nor your Fighters can travel to other systems.

Researched technologies:

Spoiler :

Ship Defence:

• None

Ship Armament:

• None

Unit Redevelopment:

• None

Technological Recovery:

• None

Societal Rediscovery:

• None

Biotech:

• None

Description: YAAFRBTFTIIACR maintained their ancient Chinese culture on the world of Long, holding on to old traditions, and this prevented many of them from disappearing. Now, their new Emperor rules by obvious Divine Right, as shown by the disappearance of the old government, and has instituted a new form of ancestor worship, now of ancestors truly disappeared.

 

[alex994]

It's hardly a China ripoff. It will be ah... much different

 

[Symphony D.]

Symphony D, I did some Quick calculations, and, given a decent Tech base in matirial Science, which would be a given for actually being able to build a Beanstalk cheaply..

GSO is 35,786km above mean sea level. Of course, that doesn't matter because the cable has to be longer than GSO. 144,000km long with no counterweight. Shorter the more massive the counterweight; but only up to a point. It would need to infinitely large to work at GSO. 91,000km with a counterweight, according to Pearson's calculations, is ideal. Even if you're moving at Mach 3 constant velocity (sealevel, 3675.24kph) from Earth to the asteroid with no acceleration or deceleration it would take you it would take you 24:45 to get to the counterweight for departure. Such a system will never be that fast either. Lets presume it operates off a magnetic system. The fastest Maglev trains can operate up to 650kph. That takes 5.83 days. It probably won't be that fast either. If it uses climbers instead, current technology only allows for 35mph (56.33kph). Mechanical locomation only gets so quick (not bothering to factor in cable taper into the problem). Even if you double, triple, or quadruple that, it'll take awhile. In short, it's going to be a long trip.

Number of cars per cable is highly variable, but I'd like to note that the United States alone, having a net gain of one person every 13 seconds, in a single year (we'll say 365 days and 6 hours for simplicity's sake, or 31,557,600 seconds) produces 2,427,507 people, give or take. Now add in China, India, and all the nations of the world. Even if you've got five cables lifting up 50,000,000 people a year, which is astonishingly optimistic (and expensive) you probably still will not beat reproductive rates on Earth (CIA says 203,800 people per day, or 74,387,000 per year), nor will you be able to easily stop people from reproducing short of a draconian world government. If lifespans also continue to increase as they have been, or, heaven forbid, some sort of method of greatly prolonging human life is developed, or standards of living increase globally, the capacity of an elevator system falls far, far behind.

You cannot empty Earth without both a massive elevator system, and a paradigm shift in human society as a whole, and people being people, odds are the former at least isn't going to happen. Interesting fact: if the fertility rate of all countries remains at a constant equal to 1995 - 2000 levels, the population of Earth in 2300 will be 134,000,000,000 people. This is obviously impossible, but it demonstrates the enormity of the problem.

 

[Kal'thzar]

*shrug* have the Govs saturate the foods with a biological chemical that renders the human race highly infertile (i.e. hard to get pregnent). Obviously there was some mistake and it was a bit over effective. Once the people get off Planet it eventually is removed from their bloodstreams or via some other means....

Regardless, I'm not here to convicne you Symph. I'm here to tell you to accept what Erik says