Add Gender Options in the sidebar

[Leoreth]

So how do you propose this be displayed? It seems a bit awkward to have a note under our username that says something like "Please refer to me as 'she' (or 'he' as the case may be)."

The way I've seen this handled in other forums is another entry below the avatar like "Pronoun: she", like the location tag. If you don't set it, it doesn't appear at all.

Do you think that would be awkward? As soon as it becomes widespread everyone should understand the meaning. It's kind of similar to setting a foreign country as your location to indicate your English skills aren't perfect, so people who don't know you can immediately take this into account when talking to you.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I'd like to see this place as a place where things like gender, race/ethnicity, religious affilition, sexual orientation, age and other things don't matter.

Someone hadn't read enough OT threads yet

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The way I've seen this handled in other forums is another entry below the avatar like "Pronoun: she", like the location tag. If you don't set it, it doesn't appear at all.

Do you think that would be awkward? As soon as it becomes widespread everyone should understand the meaning. It's kind of similar to setting a foreign country as your location to indicate your English skills aren't perfect, so people who don't know you can immediately take this into account when talking to you.

It could be awkward if somebody doesn't know what a pronoun is.

On TrekBBS, gender is indicated by either a pink symbol for female or a blue symbol for male. On the smiley forum I belong to (at least on an older version of that forum), there were three possible pictures to use to indicate gender: a cowgirl for female, a farmer for male, and some kind of weird dead alien thing to indicate you weren't telling.

Speaking of majorities and minorities, the statistics here would be largely reversed on my Doctor Who forum. Most of the active members there are female.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

It could be awkward if somebody doesn't know what a pronoun is.

On TrekBBS, gender is indicated by either a pink symbol for female or a blue symbol for male. On the smiley forum I belong to (at least on an older version of that forum), there were three possible pictures to use to indicate gender: a cowgirl for female, a farmer for male, and some kind of weird dead alien thing to indicate you weren't telling.

I'm not sure I can support this kind of stereotyping of gender roles

 

[EulerMcE]

Things would be easier if more people would just use the gender neutral singular 'they'.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

"They" refers to more than one person.

 

[EulerMcE]

"They" refers to more than one person.

It can be and is often used for both singular and plural, not totally dissimilar to 'you' (which can also be an indefinite pronoun).

 

[Camikaze]

Someone hadn't read enough OT threads yet

Gender seems to be something which might be a bit more relevant to OT discussions, if it's relevant to anything. For the civ forums, I can't really think of any discussions in which anyone would benefit from knowledge of someone else's gender. There is the matter of pronouns, but that's also something that comes up more in OT. Although I don't think there'd be any problem having this as a general profile thing (e.g. 'Civ4 Versions'), displaying it next to each post would add clutter without much upside for civ discussions, particularly when it's probably a safe bet that at least half the people displaying it will be lying.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Gender seems to be something which might be a bit more relevant to OT discussions, if it's relevant to anything. For the civ forums, I can't really think of any discussions in which anyone would benefit from knowledge of someone else's gender. There is the matter of pronouns, but that's also something that comes up more in OT. Although I don't think there'd be any problem having this as a general profile thing (e.g. 'Civ4 Versions'), displaying it next to each post would add clutter without much upside for civ discussions, particularly when it's probably a safe bet that at least half the people displaying it will be lying.

So what if they are? If a man says he's a woman and doesn't mind being addressed as "she" and referred to as "her" that's his preference, isn't it?

How many people who fill in their locations are actually telling the truth? I rather suspect that a lot of people around here are not being honest in giving their location, which can sometimes cause confusion when people think they're from one country when they're really from somewhere else. Are you in Vienna at this exact moment? From what I've heard, you've been traveling; do you update your location every time you go somewhere else?

 

[peter grimes]

Location being misinterpreted as place of origin seems wide if the point, no?

There's nothing that says you have to be truthful in what you choose to write there. It's not infractable. One of the first members I name to know appeared to be from Coruscant, which I'm pretty sure is not in this solar system.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Sorry, sloppy word usage. I didn't mean place of origin, I meant where people are at the time they post, which is what I take the location to mean. But I have seen people confused when some posters have mentioned being in one country when their location implies they're in another completely different place.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

It is possible to add your gender or your favoured pronoun under the username or in the signature area, if anyone have specific desires. People might still not care about it..

 

[Camikaze]

I'm in Vienna, and I do tend to update it to be accurate. It doesn't really matter if people are lying, in that it is not of any importance that they are, but it would make it far less informative (to be clear, by 'lying' I'm meaning someone putting down 'she' when they don't identify as that, and are just putting that down to screw with people). There seems to be less point in having it displayed if it's mostly inaccurate.

I'd also think that if it's an optional thing, it's something that will be used primarily to mark females as distinct from everyone else, which I don't think is what we want.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Speak for yourself as to what "we" want. I appreciate the forums that give me the option to say if I'm male or female - it saves a lot of time and hassle, having to post, "Please don't call me 'dude' or 'man' - I'm a woman and would prefer to be referred to as 'she' or 'her' and not 'he' or 'him.'"

You're acting like the female members here will suddenly get collectively stalked by the guys if we happen to have the information readily visible that we're women. Yes, there have been a couple of creepy people here, but one of them hasn't been seen (by me, at least) in several years, and the other one started minding his manners after I told him off.

 

[Camikaze]

Speak for yourself as to what "we" want.

Firstly, I said "I don't think is what we want", not "we don't want", which means I'm speaking for what I think 'we' want. Secondly, you're not part of the 'we' I'm referring to.

I appreciate the forums that give me the option to say if I'm male or female - it saves a lot of time and hassle, having to post, "Please don't call me 'dude' or 'man' - I'm a woman and would prefer to be referred to as 'she' or 'her' and not 'he' or 'him.'"

You're acting like the female members here will suddenly get collectively stalked by the guys if we happen to have the information readily visible that we're women. Yes, there have been a couple of creepy people here, but one of them hasn't been seen (by me, at least) in several years, and the other one started minding his manners after I told him off.

I don't think stalking is going to be an issue due to this. The problem I was referring to is that it could make this an unwelcoming environment for female members, if they feel they must display a disclaimer as to their gender in a male-dominated place. If someone is met with a profile field on sign-up asking for their gender, they'd be excused for believing that it might for some reason have some significance. When the vast majority of the forum populace is male, making a big deal, or any deal, of this difference would not strike me as a positive.

To preempt, I'm not saying that this is what you think, or what all females would think. I'm saying that I think the existence of such a field, particularly if it were displayed next to each post, would possibly create an unwelcoming environment for female posters. I don't think we would want that.

 

[metatron]

Avoiding this pronoun problem is really not that hard. There's always, you know, someone's name.

The proposed "solution" has a downside - option or not. Most people will make use of an optional system out of indifference. Not using this system would become a "statement" of some sort in and of itself.
The way things are now one has to take into consideration the ambiguity of the gender of someone they don't know. In my view this increases awareness, civility and, heck, dare i as an OT user even say it, courtesy.
I for one have always found it somewhat disturbing when one of the first things some forum i'm signing up to is implicitly inquiring about was my gender ("What the hell would you want to know that for?! This isn't a dating site, is it?").
And one can always tell people, which may fail as Valka pointed out, but still.

Once more: Don't let optionality fool you. It will not play out like that.

Voted "no".

You're acting like the female members here will suddenly get collectively stalked by the guys if we happen to have the information readily visible that we're women. Yes, there have been a couple of creepy people here, but one of them hasn't been seen (by me, at least) in several years, and the other one started minding his manners after I told him off.

That's you.
Someone else may percieve and prioritise this differently. Someone else may check that box at registration and later wish they hadn't.

 

[Sonereal]

It can be and is often used for both singular and plural, not totally dissimilar to 'you' (which can also be an indefinite pronoun).

Besides the fact it sounds awful, it isn't proper English.

The correct way is saying, "She or he" or "He or she" or "S/he" or what-have-you.

Avoiding this pronoun problem is really not that hard. There's always, you know, someone's name.

Do you often ignore the use of pronouns in your daily life? You can't actively avoid using pronouns in writing without sounding like a complete fool or somebody who doesn't grasp English very well.

The way things are now one has to take into consideration the ambiguity of the gender of someone they don't know. In my view this increases awareness, civility and, heck, dare i as an OT user even say it, courtesy.

Somebody who has problems maintaining courtesy because of his or her awareness of the opposite's gender is somebody who should reconsider their priorities.

For the civ forums, I can't really think of any discussions in which anyone would benefit from knowledge of someone else's gender

According to metatron, I would be short forty infractions if the gender of most CivV G&Ders was ambiguous.

I don't see the problem with allowing somebody to mark whether they are female or male, or leave it unchecked for that matter.

 

[EulerMcE]

Besides the fact it sounds awful, it isn't proper English.

The correct way is saying, "She or he" or "He or she" or "S/he" or what-have-you.

Not "proper" English in the sense that it's not the Standard English pushed by style guides and English teachers. But the rules of that are fairly arbitrary and the singular they enjoys widespread usage as functional and legitimate spoken English that's seemingly largely independent of dialect. It sounding awful is subjective, and as a counter-point "he or she" sounds pretty terrible except where hugely stilted writing is expected.

 

[metatron]

Do you often ignore the use of pronouns in your daily life? You can't actively avoid using pronouns in writing [...]

Not all pronouns but "he" and "she".
It's prefectly easy. You did it later in your post by using my name instead of refering to me as "he" or "she".

[...] without sounding like a complete fool or somebody who doesn't grasp English very well.

Well...

Somebody who has problems maintaining courtesy because of his or her awareness of the opposite's gender is somebody who should reconsider their priorities.

Ok.
Apparently we have just discovered one more set of priorities that doesn't solve this problem.

 

[Arachnofiend]

(to be clear, by 'lying' I'm meaning someone putting down 'she' when they don't identify as that, and are just putting that down to screw with people).

I honestly don't see how this would be a problem, and I certainly don't see how it's enough of a problem so that people who do identify as female and are irritated by having to regularly correct people have to keep on with the status quo.