pre-release info Aksum - Antiquity Age Civilization Discussion

[pokiehl]

Cool song and great background art. This might be my favorite of the background art pieces so far.

 

[Mudokon Pop]

I'm repeating myself here but please do not even entertain using those arts as reference for anything. The direction they've chosen for these goes straight against any semblance of accuracy or historical research.
You can always speculate on what's the intended goal of the pieces (this one seems to focus solely on the stella wonder) but the Genshin spears on Centurions, Mayan temples where the stairs are blocked by a wall and people in pelts dance around a campfire below, Greeks with trimmed British gardens,... it's almost impossible to come to the conclusion they were at any point meant to go under the microscope.

A stairs blocked by a wall? I didn't notice that but I have noticed that AI generated images do that a lot.

 

[notNamed]

A stairs blocked by a wall? I didn't notice that but I have noticed that AI generated images do that a lot.

While AI art does have a knack for impossible designs, it does so in ways that are thoroughly derivative in nature. It takes images of things that exist and overapplies them, morphs one into the other, etc.
However, the detailing on the pyramid and surrounding buildings (beyond the underlying attempt at match it to Mundo Perdido's in-game model) does not really follow any real precedents. It's just made up by someone who, at least appears to, have had little to no exposure to Mayan architecture either IRL or through reconstructions (written or drawn). Creative, not educational.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

While AI art does have a knack for impossible designs, it does so in ways that are thoroughly derivative in nature. It takes images of things that exist and overapplies them, morphs one into the other, etc.
However, the detailing on the pyramid and surrounding buildings (beyond the underlying attempt at match it to Mundo Perdido's in-game model) does not really follow any real precedents. It's just made up by someone who, at least appears to, have had little to no exposure to Mayan architecture either IRL or through reconstructions (written or drawn). Creative, not educational.

I also wanna iterate a point I made earlier:

Google is infested with AI generated work, these are now bleeding into actual concept art. This means that misinformative generative pieces are used as references, so although I doubt any of these have been made with AI itself, it's very possible that a reference was used that may have.

 

[pokiehl]

I think it’s unwarranted to accuse them of using AI or not doing enough research and resorting to inaccurate AI generated images.

The Maya art doesn’t have a staircase blocked by a wall. I think whomever sees that is mistaking the perspective.

 

[Siptah]

The Maya art doesn’t have a staircase blocked by a wall. I think whomever sees that is mistaking the perspective.

I‘m not the one how claimed it does, but I think what is meant is that the staircase doesn‘t lead to anywhere useful and there is no actual way to get to the top/the place where the torches are, as the staircase ends in an altar-like thing and a wall. It doesn’t look like there is much space to exit the upper end of the stairs. There probably should be a way around the top structure and the altar, but it can‘t be seen clearly. I don‘t believe it‘s AI, it‘s just an oversight.

 

[marius_kaparius]

Unique Military Unit​

Dhow: Unique Naval Unit. Increased Combat Strength on Coast tiles. Has a charge to create a naval Trade Route.

I went "whoa" when I read the bolded part. This seems really powerful?

 

[thecrazyscot]

A stairs blocked by a wall? I didn't notice that but I have noticed that AI generated images do that a lot.

Let's just nip this in the bud.

These are not AI generated. This should be very clear once you see the credits.

Source.

 

[Paisley_Trees]

Yes, this is where I harbor some doubts about the design - Aksum was not known for its naval dominance or something; it was primarily a middleman that controlled a choke point on the Mediterranean-Indian trade route.

And come to think of it, Swahilians should be a better choice for a maritime East African civ. Maybe in the 2nd Age.

rereading this thread today, and "harbor some doubts" made me laugh out loud, intentional pun or not! XD

 

[8housesofelixir]

Recently, I have seen some discussions about what would be a better Aksum UU, since Dhow is just a generic Red Sea and Somalian trading ship with little connection to Aksum itself, while the other existing choice, the Shotelai in Humankind, very likely only developed deep into the Solomonic dynasty rather than an early formation.
(Some of the Aksum steles had images of spear and shield carved on the very top, suggesting that these were the actual weaponry used in the Aksum period rather than the shotel. See the example below.)

Spoiler two spears and one round shield on the stele :

---

What would be a good choice for an Aksumite UU then? As a historian, I did what a scholar would do - type some keywords into an academic database, and see if someone more knowledgeable had written something about it.

At first glance, it seems that nothing came out of it, since the Aksumites themselves did not leave many records for us, most of which are just royal inscriptions with heavy propaganda elements. Then, I came across Merid W. Aregay's "Military Elites in Medieval Ethiopia," which is a landmark study of Ethiopian military history.

Most of the paper is about the early Solomonic military, but Aregay also discussed the Aksumite society and military at the beginning of the paper. He gave a detailed reading of the Aksumite royal inscriptions and analyzed the military organization as reflected between the lines.

• The core of the Aksum was a coalition of several Ge'ez-speaking pastoral warbands, who expanded from the coast to inland and conquered the Agaw farmers, thus forming a state.
• The Aksumite king was initially the most powerful warband leader among many other warband leaders, so his title in the inscription is "King of Kings" (negusa nagast), as a high king (negus) leading many smaller, regional kings or tribal leaders (nagast, plural of negus).
• Each regional king leads their own warband or tribe (angada), and in times of war, their tribe would turn into a regiment (sarwe) and departed to join the campaign.
• For instance, the inscription of the Ezana Stone states that when King Ezana called for a campaign, he would "sent into the field the regiments of Mahaza, Hara, Damawa, Falha, and Sera along the Seda, going up to their cities with walls of stone and of straw..." The names listed here are the tribe-regimes. Ezana himself identified with the Halen tribe.
• Essentially, the Aksumites had a powerful militaristic aristocracy organized along the tribal lines. The Aksumite kings were also highly militaristic, calling themselves the "son of the Unconquered Mahrem" in the inscriptions, Mahrem being the god of war. All the existing Aksum royal inscriptions are about war and conquest.
• Such a militaristic culture passed down to later Ethiopian cultures as well, and heavily impacted the much later Solomonic military.

The summary above is quite informative, and gave us plenty to work with. The Aksumite UU can be these warbands, named "Sarwe," holding spears and shields visually, with an ability related to garrison, or protecting the trade route.

Historically, the Kingdom of Aksum was not simply a trading middleman but also a strong land power; they conquered the Nubian Kingdom of Kush and expanded across the sea into Yemen. Giving the Aksumites an offensive unit is thematically sound, and also provides them with enough military ability in an otherwise defenseless toolkit (the current Aksum design does not have any land-based military ability and would be very hard to defend themselves).

 

[Mudokon Pop]

Recently, I have seen some discussions about what would be a better Aksum UU, since Dhow is just a generic Red Sea and Somalian trading ship with little connection to Aksum itself, while the other existing choice, the Shotelai in Humankind, very likely only developed deep into the Solomonic dynasty rather than an early formation.
(Some of the Aksum steles had images of spear and shield carved on the very top, suggesting that these were the actual weaponry used in the Aksum period rather than the shotel. See the example below.)

Spoiler two spears and one round shield on the stele :

View attachment 717625

---

What would be a good choice for an Aksumite UU then? As a historian, I did what a scholar would do - type some keywords into an academic database, and see if someone more knowledgeable had written something about it.

At first glance, it seems that nothing came out of it, since the Aksumites themselves did not leave many records for us, most of which are just royal inscriptions with heavy propaganda elements. Then, I came across Merid W. Aregay's "Military Elites in Medieval Ethiopia," which is a landmark study of Ethiopian military history.

Most of the paper is about the early Solomonic military, but Aregay also discussed the Aksumite society and military at the beginning of the paper. He gave a detailed reading of the Aksumite royal inscriptions and analyzed the military organization as reflected between the lines.

• The core of the Aksum was a coalition of several Ge'ez-speaking pastoral warbands, who expanded from the coast to inland and conquered the Agaw farmers, thus forming a state.
• The Aksumite king was initially the most powerful warband leader among many other warband leaders, so his title in the inscription is "King of Kings" (negusa nagast), as a high king (negus) leading many smaller, regional kings or tribal leaders (nagast, plural of negus).
• Each regional king leads their own warband or tribe (angada), and in times of war, their tribe would turn into a regiment (sarwe) and departed to join the campaign.
• For instance, the inscription of the Ezana Stone states that when King Ezana called for a campaign, he would "sent into the field the regiments of Mahaza, Hara, Damawa, Falha, and Sera along the Seda, going up to their cities with walls of stone and of straw..." The names listed here are the tribe-regimes. Ezana himself identified with the Halen tribe.
• Essentially, the Aksumites had a powerful militaristic aristocracy organized along the tribal lines. The Aksumite kings were also highly militaristic, calling themselves the "son of the Unconquered Mahrem" in the inscriptions, Mahrem being the god of war. All the existing Aksum royal inscriptions are about war and conquest.
• Such a militaristic culture passed down to later Ethiopian cultures as well, and heavily impacted the much later Solomonic military.

The summary above is quite informative, and gave us plenty to work with. The Aksumite UU can be these warbands, named "Sarwe," holding spears and shields visually, with an ability related to garrison, or protecting the trade route.

Historically, the Kingdom of Aksum was not simply a trading middleman but also a strong land power; they conquered the Nubian Kingdom of Kush and expanded across the sea into Yemen. Giving the Aksumites an offensive unit is thematically sound, and also provides them with enough military ability in an otherwise defenseless toolkit (the current Aksum design does not have any land-based military ability and would be very hard to defend themselves).

I really appreciate this research. Most sources I've read on Aksum typically repeat the same information. Here I learned something new. And I completely agree with you on Aksum being a land power - there's a tendency to only view Aksum through the lens of the Indian Ocean Trade and not focus on it's relations within Africa. I've seen historians completely dismiss the very idea that Aksum and Kush would have had trade with each other and downplay any contact between them. (except for the conquest of course).