Aksum - Antiquity Age Civilization Discussion

[stealth_nsk]

It seems that Aksum now almost entirely occupies the "Ancient Maritime Trader Civ" niche - and I wonder what the design of Phoenicia/Carthage would be down the road.

(Arguably, Carthage was not that maritime-heavy IRL, and a difference can be made there.)

There could be a space for 2 civs with Maritime focus. Probably, Phoenicia could be less focused on trade, rivers and resources and more on science and diplomacy. It's possible to distinguish them enough based on this.

 

[Mudokon Pop]

I do think it's possible to distinguish between Aksum and Phoenicia, gameplay wise. The Phoenicians settled colonies/trade outposts all over the Mediterranean and gained quite a monopoly on the copper trade. Whereas Aksum traded with India/Egypt/Nabataea but did not establish colonial settlements there.

Many scholars believe that Aksum's ports were actually semi independent cities with their own kings - client states/vassals of Aksum under their millitary protection. Aksum was a highland power that controlled trade routes from the African interior to the Red Sea coast. Adulis is Aksum's only confirmed port - other major East African ports such as Zeila and Berbera were Somali ports who's relationship (subordination) to Aksum is not well understood yet.

Unlike the Phoenicians coastal inclination - Aksum also led extensive millitary campaigns over land - invading Nubia and frequently intervening in the wars among different South Arabian kingdoms. These Arabian kingdoms frequently sought Aksumite millitary assistance.

I think Aksum might have too much of a maritime bias given their land expeditions. A good balance of both land and maritime abilities would be ideal in my opinion.
[edit - i forgot to finish the last sentence]

 

[8housesofelixir]

Many scholars believe that Aksum's ports were actually semi independent cities with their own kings - client states/vassals of Aksum under their millitary protection. Aksum was a highland power that controlled trade routes from the African interior to the Red Sea coast. Adulis is Aksum's only confirmed port - other major East African ports such as Zeila and Berbera were Somali ports who's relationship (subordination) to Aksum is not well understood yet.

Unlike the Phoenicians coastal inclination - Aksum also led extensive millitary campaigns over land - invading Nubia and frequently intervening in the wars among different South Arabian kingdoms. These Arabian kingdoms frequently sought Aksumite millitary assistance.

I think Aksum might have too much of a maritime bias given their land expeditions. A good balance of land and maritime

Yes, this is where I harbor some doubts about the design - Aksum was not known for its naval dominance or something; it was primarily a middleman that controlled a choke point on the Mediterranean-Indian trade route.

And come to think of it, Swahilians should be a better choice for a maritime East African civ. Maybe in the 2nd Age.

 

[Leucarum]

Phonecia in Civ6 was much more about maritime colonization. I could see an expansionist/economic design centered on more money from coastal towns and something to help found them being pretty different to Aksum's design.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Yes, this is where I harbor some doubts about the design - Aksum was not known for its naval dominance or something; it was primarily a middleman that controlled a choke point on the Mediterranean-Indian trade route.

And come to think of it, Swahilians should be a better choice for a maritime East African civ. Maybe in the 2nd Age.

Maybe they are planning for, as you said, a route for them to go into either the Swahili or Somalians.

As far Phoenicia/Carthage I'm sure they can find something. Maybe they can interact with independent powers and incorporate them into their armies easier than others. At least that's what Carthage was known for.

 

[Nikolai II]

Phonecia in Civ6 was much more about maritime colonization. I could see an expansionist/economic design centered on more money from coastal towns and something to help found them being pretty different to Aksum's design.

Phoenica in Civ7 could be based around many towns I guess? At least Carthage was a city with many vassal territories and the Phoenican civ as a whole was pretty decentralized. Towns could be seen as decentralized government?

 

[Krikkit1]

Phoenica in Civ7 could be based around many towns I guess? At least Carthage was a city with many vassal territories and the Phoenican civ as a whole was pretty decentralized. Towns could be seen as decentralized government?

Which would set up a good conflict with Augustus.

 

[reddishrecue]

Which would set up a good conflict with Augustus.

Depends who was the leader of whom at the given time.

 

[JNR13]

First time we actually see the Hawilt and not just the Great Stele, I think.

 

[AriochIV]

First time we actually see the Hawilt and not just the Great Stele, I think.
View attachment 707291

Seen it at least once before.

 

[Rac]

 

[Rac]

Aksum - Background art

 

[Leucarum]

Well Aksum just jumped up several spots on my order of play based on theme alone...

 

[Uberfrog]

You are quicker than I am! Another great theme.

Hopefully this theme silences all the unfair criticism Roland got for his compositions based on the wrong file uploads!

 

[Patcheresu]

You are quicker than I am! Another great theme.

Hopefully this theme silences all the unfair criticism Roland got for his compositions based on the wrong file uploads!

I was a bit torn on this one. It seemed to have all the elements of a piece I don't like.

Then 0:45 happened and I was instantly sold. Wonderful!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Similar to the Maya song, this one hits right. Glad to hear it.

 

[Guandao]

In the background art, there's smaller Egyptian looking obelisks to the side of the Great Stele. Is this historically accurate for Aksum?

Ok, looking more closely at them, they are shaped like Egyptian ones, but have an indentation in them.

 

[Mudokon Pop]

In the background art, there's smaller Egyptian looking obelisks to the side of the Great Stele. Is this historically accurate for Aksum?

Ok, looking more closely at them, they are shaped like Egyptian ones, but have an indentation in them.

I've only ever seen rounded tops on the stelae - never seen pointed ones. The only shape variation I've seen was 'double headed'. There was also a building in front of the great stelae that was smashed when the great stelae fell.

 

[Siptah]

There is one with a pointed tip right next to great Stelae nowadays. Yet, it doesn't look anything like the ones in the civ 7 background.

Spoiler :

 

[notNamed]

In the background art, there's smaller Egyptian looking obelisks to the side of the Great Stele. Is this historically accurate for Aksum?

I'm repeating myself here but please do not even entertain using those arts as reference for anything. The direction they've chosen for these goes straight against any semblance of accuracy or historical research.
You can always speculate on what's the intended goal of the pieces (this one seems to focus solely on the stella wonder) but the Genshin spears on Centurions, Mayan temples where the stairs are blocked by a wall and people in pelts dance around a campfire below, Greeks with trimmed British gardens,... it's almost impossible to come to the conclusion they were at any point meant to go under the microscope.