I didn't know there was a flanking III (3) lol was it added in the Patch? LOL I think the Maximum Flanking Promotions you can get is up to Flanking II unless they added a New Promotion in the game. Unless you meant Tactics Promotion with gives a unit 30% chance withdrawal from combat, but that's only available with a Great General Attached to a unit.
ALC Game 11 Pre-Game Show: Playing as Hannibal
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
I didn't know there was a flanking III (3) lol was it added in the Patch? LOL I think the Maximum Flanking Promotions you can get is up to Flanking II unless they added a New Promotion in the game. Unless you meant Tactics Promotion with gives a unit 30% chance withdrawal from combat, but that's only available with a Great General Attached to a unit.
Mr. Civtastic
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2006
- Messages
- 488
lol, glad my typo was so humorous to you. I meant I and II...iirc the numidian cavalry the 10% retreat bonus isnt a promotion, much like Swordmen's 10% city attack.
Something about the Nums:
With having 20% chance to withdraw, starting with flanking I and easily getting flanking II, you have units which will rarely die. There first real counter are elephants which comes with construction. Nums have a good chance to survive battles with >30% Chance to win. So they are cost effective. You also get stables form Horseback Riding. So you are also close to the third promotion.
About Hannibal himself:
He is imo somekind of a nobrainer. Fin means you are building a good CE and Chr makes you a warmonger. The UB provides the extra credits to sustain your new conquered empire early on.
With having 20% chance to withdraw, starting with flanking I and easily getting flanking II, you have units which will rarely die. There first real counter are elephants which comes with construction. Nums have a good chance to survive battles with >30% Chance to win. So they are cost effective. You also get stables form Horseback Riding. So you are also close to the third promotion.
About Hannibal himself:
He is imo somekind of a nobrainer. Fin means you are building a good CE and Chr makes you a warmonger. The UB provides the extra credits to sustain your new conquered empire early on.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Maybe after bronze-working beeline for HR, forget early wonders unless you've got marble or stone nearby. If you have to choose between marble and horses for second city then go for horses. In my limited experience on 2.08 monarch AIs get feudalism/longbows fast so your first war of expansion needs to happen early. After first expansion then settle down to building cottages and developing trade routes.
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
Recent experience has taught me to favour the opposite approach.
Since it's not uncommon for someone to have Feudalism and longbows by 1AD (in my games at any rate), you've got a very small window of opportunity to strike before they appear, and to strike hard will likely hammer your economy so much that you'll be well off the pace when the dust settles. Instead, I've tended to favour expanding myself until I've got 4-6 cities (how much you can spread is obviously map dependent).
If you research construction and follow it up with researching (or trading) currency, CoL and monarchy, that gives you time to build a lot of siege and hit an enemy hard with an economy ripe for quick expansion. Cats and swords are all you need for war until the enemy starts fielding maces which gives them a reasonable window (up until about 600-800AD typically) in which to acquire another swathe of territory. Fighting at low odds is also more favourable as a charismatic leader, since promotions are easy to come by making veterans less "valuable" because they're more easily replaced.
One advantage of this general strategy is that it forces you to focus heavily on your economy early in the game, which really pays dividends longer-term (your core will be able to absorb more gains at less cost). If you generate a couple of GS as you go along, you can lightbulb philosophy to backfill anything you're missing on the lower half of the tech-tree and pop most of education to help you beat the AI to liberalism and free astronomy.
With the emphasis in this game on winning via one of the peaceful builder routes (cue Monty, Alex and Shaka as neighbours), it makes sense to limit yourself to one war of aggression before turtling up, so that war should aim to totally cripple or eliminate the target in a single sustained offensive (thus minimising any diplomatic fallout with the remainder of the continent). The patch has made this slightly easier as the AI generally builds fewer units, much of its power being tied up in buildings and population.
futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
I can't believe how fast the AIs are getting feudalism nowadays...
My current approach is:
1) If I have copper, I axerush
2) If I don't have copper, I beeline to construction while rexing (trading for iron). I will especially do this if I have ivory
In this case with Hannibal you'll want to take advantage of his uu if you can. The problem is they're not great at taking cities and do you really want to pillage an empire you're going to claim for yourself (beyond military resources)?
I think they're best for supporting your stack to take out enemies in the open field (and of course to pillage military resources). Beyond that I'm not sure what to do with them really.
I s'pose that if you were to beeline to hbriding (assuming no copper?) then you could send in your nc to stifle your enemy until you come in with catas (once you then research construction), but that would make for a long and costly war.
I don't know, I just don't like researching hbriding. It doesn't lead to anything and the harcher unit just doesn't do much for you imo.
That aside, I'm looking forward to this game. Hannibal is a really good leader imo so this should be fun...
My current approach is:
1) If I have copper, I axerush
2) If I don't have copper, I beeline to construction while rexing (trading for iron). I will especially do this if I have ivory
In this case with Hannibal you'll want to take advantage of his uu if you can. The problem is they're not great at taking cities and do you really want to pillage an empire you're going to claim for yourself (beyond military resources)?
I think they're best for supporting your stack to take out enemies in the open field (and of course to pillage military resources). Beyond that I'm not sure what to do with them really.
I s'pose that if you were to beeline to hbriding (assuming no copper?) then you could send in your nc to stifle your enemy until you come in with catas (once you then research construction), but that would make for a long and costly war.
I don't know, I just don't like researching hbriding. It doesn't lead to anything and the harcher unit just doesn't do much for you imo.
That aside, I'm looking forward to this game. Hannibal is a really good leader imo so this should be fun...
aelf
Ashen One
Well, the UU is actually quite suitable for this game if you're unable to conquer an entire civ without going for a prolonged war. Just conquer enough land to play peacefully for the rest of the game and pillage the remaining enemy territory. You'd make a tidy profit and severely weaken him/her.
Cookie Crumbs
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2006
- Messages
- 485
I've seen somewhere on the forums someone make good use of the Temple of Artemis -if your capital is coastal chances are you'll have trade routes with neighbouring civs' capitals, which grow fast on high levels. The Cothon adds an extra trade route and the Temple of Artemis doubles all trade route income, which should be high if the AI's cities are growing fast. If you can snag the GL somehow you'll have oodles of commerce from trade routes.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Thanks for all the input! I agree, given the lack of the industrious trait, any early wonders will be entirely map dependent--that is, we'll be seeing if stone and/or marble are available nearby and if there are forests for chopping, and then deciding what's worth going after.
kniteowl's ideas were very valuable, giving us several unusual options to choose from. (Economics from Liberalism? Interesting...) We'll have to keep in mind all the different suggestions as I play and post. Like I said, I'll post more frequently with fewer turns played in each round.
I'll start the game soon. I'm just finishing an off-line game now. I made the mistake of leaving Monty alive, and he just declared war: his Cavalry, Infantry, and Cannons versus my Tanks, Gunships, and Bombers.
The poor guy isn't even getting a chance to pillage...
kniteowl's ideas were very valuable, giving us several unusual options to choose from. (Economics from Liberalism? Interesting...) We'll have to keep in mind all the different suggestions as I play and post. Like I said, I'll post more frequently with fewer turns played in each round.
I'll start the game soon. I'm just finishing an off-line game now. I made the mistake of leaving Monty alive, and he just declared war: his Cavalry, Infantry, and Cannons versus my Tanks, Gunships, and Bombers.
The poor guy isn't even getting a chance to pillage...
The ToA's free priest is also a godsend in the GP generation stakes. If you've got marble, 5 GPP plus the trade bonus can be well worth the investment. If you can manage to get the GLh and the Colossus as well, you'll get loads of GMs.
I've been experimenting with settling the GMs thus produced in slow-growth (ie. no food resources) coastal cities (playing as Hannibal). The food bonus allows the cities to grow much quicker (two GMs = double growth speed) and so to work more of those 4cpt coastal tiles.
It did take a serious initial investment, but, with a four-seafood, high-production capital (with marble) and no other good city spots nearby (lots of tundra and ice), it's allowed me to make the most of what was a tricky start to the game, turning the otherwise poor coastal cities into powerful trade/coast commerce generators, freeing up the capital for military production.
It's highly situational, but, as my neighbours are soon to find out, the combination of these wonders can allow a resource-weak empire to quickly grab the techs needed for the conquest of more plentiful lands.
Edit: Good luck!
I've been experimenting with settling the GMs thus produced in slow-growth (ie. no food resources) coastal cities (playing as Hannibal). The food bonus allows the cities to grow much quicker (two GMs = double growth speed) and so to work more of those 4cpt coastal tiles.
It did take a serious initial investment, but, with a four-seafood, high-production capital (with marble) and no other good city spots nearby (lots of tundra and ice), it's allowed me to make the most of what was a tricky start to the game, turning the otherwise poor coastal cities into powerful trade/coast commerce generators, freeing up the capital for military production.
It's highly situational, but, as my neighbours are soon to find out, the combination of these wonders can allow a resource-weak empire to quickly grab the techs needed for the conquest of more plentiful lands.
Edit: Good luck!
carl corey
Deity
Ok, so I checked my post-patch game with Hannibal.
I did in fact build three wonders in my capital: Stonehenge, the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus. I pretty much had to go from one to the other to get them.
Other wonders were pretty much out of range. The Great Wall was completed soon after Stonehenge, Temple of Artemis soon after the Great Lighthouse, etc. Oracle was quite late, maybe I could have given it a shot but it would have meant delaying the Great Lighthouse and frankly, with 3 out of the 4 initial cities coastal I'd rather have the latter. My non-coastal city built units to fend off barbs and take out Shaka (Great Wall & Pyramids) and in the end I took over my entire continent. Probably not what you're going to do in this game though...
About Cothons: they're good except for the cost. It pretty much takes forever to build them. If coastal your capital will surely use one, but I wouldn't cripple my other cities' production with them if I can build something more useful.
My experience is that getting Economics from Liberalism is very unlikely to happen. Most AIs go the Feudalism -> Guilds -> Banking route while you're going for Liberalism, so one of them will most certainly get there first. One thing you could do would be to be sure you have a Great Merchant while you're nearing Education, then use him for a trade mission and run research as high as you can (maybe even starve your cities to run scientists). I've done this extreme teching once and got back from something like 4-5 techs behind to get both Liberalism and Economics. The GM form Eco got me another trade mission and another 'starving scientists' era to get Physics first too.
I did in fact build three wonders in my capital: Stonehenge, the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus. I pretty much had to go from one to the other to get them.
Other wonders were pretty much out of range. The Great Wall was completed soon after Stonehenge, Temple of Artemis soon after the Great Lighthouse, etc. Oracle was quite late, maybe I could have given it a shot but it would have meant delaying the Great Lighthouse and frankly, with 3 out of the 4 initial cities coastal I'd rather have the latter. My non-coastal city built units to fend off barbs and take out Shaka (Great Wall & Pyramids) and in the end I took over my entire continent. Probably not what you're going to do in this game though...
About Cothons: they're good except for the cost. It pretty much takes forever to build them. If coastal your capital will surely use one, but I wouldn't cripple my other cities' production with them if I can build something more useful.
My experience is that getting Economics from Liberalism is very unlikely to happen. Most AIs go the Feudalism -> Guilds -> Banking route while you're going for Liberalism, so one of them will most certainly get there first. One thing you could do would be to be sure you have a Great Merchant while you're nearing Education, then use him for a trade mission and run research as high as you can (maybe even starve your cities to run scientists). I've done this extreme teching once and got back from something like 4-5 techs behind to get both Liberalism and Economics. The GM form Eco got me another trade mission and another 'starving scientists' era to get Physics first too.
Because of Charismatic and Financial, Hannibal greatly benefits from early workers and the techs needed to give them work. Concentrating on three workers for the first two cities might be a good move depending upon the terrain and how quickly you want to get the cottages up and growing.
So much depends upon the starting position though, so let's see what the new year brings. Here's hoping for a gold or gem mine, coastal start, a sea resource and metal.
So much depends upon the starting position though, so let's see what the new year brings. Here's hoping for a gold or gem mine, coastal start, a sea resource and metal.
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 3,663
Woohoo, break out the Chianti!
Yuck. What a mess....
A UU that calls for two completely dead end techs. Furthermore, you need Animal Loving to expose the resource, and that tech has less than its usual leverage as (1) you aren't starting with either of the pre-requisites, and (2) being Financial, your natural route to writing is through Pottery.
Fishing takes a serious hit if your opening settler starts inland. If you have a two food water tile handy you can use if for a faster initial tech pace, but probably not enough faster to snag a religion, since you have to get through Mysticism first.
Mining is one of my least favorite opening techs - its a lovely stepping stone to Bronze Working, and worth some quick happy (but you are Charismatic, so that has less than the usual leverage) and commerce if you get a luxury metal in the fat cross, but it hasn't been my habit to mine hills during the opening (again, especially if you are intending to pop rush your workers and settlers). And the pairing of Fishing and Mining isn't a particularly good one - your workboats can't leverage mining at all, and you lose some of fishing's upside if you have to wait on the boat to get a worker out first. If you do go workboat first, then then you aren't going to be swinging the axe for a while, which depreciates the early research of Bronze Working....
Your unique building is a Harbor replacement, which suggests Iron Working, but swords and horse archers are somewhat overlapping. Part of the point of the unique units is that you can delay researching some of the other units of that era - wasted if you have to go that direction anyway.
Pottery is a big deal for a financial civ, and you've at last got a pre-req, but you don't need roads for your fish, so that The Wheel isn't as valuble early.
Charismatic calls for Mysticism to harvest extra happy, but Financial doesn't have any particularly strong synergy with the early parts of the religious tree, unless you can somehow manage to snag Buddhism - so what are you going to do with the Great Prophet, now that the slingshot to Civil Service has been nerfed.
And as Sisiutil already pointed out, there are no discounted buildings to fold into the strategy.
OK, instead of concentrating on what isn't there, lets look at what is available. Horse based unique units suggest defending with Chariots instead of Axes, and we wanted the wheel early for pottery anyway, so there's something of a match there.
The traderoute boost for the Cothon improves the leverage of coastal cities, which leans toward the Great Lighthouse, which yields Great Merchant points, and Civil Service is fairly high on the GM lightbulb list, which would give an extra kick to the trade routes to the capital (the extra size available in the capital, courtesy of the happy and health boni, should boost the value of the trade routes as well). There's some care that needs to be taken for the lightbulb....
Currency unlocks Code of Laws, so the usual route through the religious tree can be bypassed. Metal Casting is in the way, but Colossus fits reasonably with coastal cities and a GM harvest, so that's not too awful. Code of Laws can be used for a quick does of Caste Merchants to speed the sling - you'll want to revolt to Bureaucracy anyway, so the switch back out of Caste System is free.
(Temple of Artemis might also be an interesting choice. The building gives merchant points and the free priest gives prophet points, for a total of 5 GPP/turn, with a 50-50 split on delivering a prophet or merchant. The Prophet would be unfortunate, but maybe it can be used to set up an early gold city).
Another alternative: Great Wall (which allows some luxury on the choice of farming coins or hammers, since barbs are less of an issue), then use the 100 point GE to pop the lighthouse outside the capital, intending to stack some merchants with it via Caste System to hurry the merchant @200. Does that timing work, or will the AI score the lighthouse too early?
Basically, look at the local rocks and resources, and figure out which of the early wonders to pull in.
Depending on the commerce slider and the timing of the technologies, it may make sense to go for an early Academy @100, to pop CS with the Merchant @200.
Financial and Charismatic don't look to me to have a clear tech intersection, but if you've been using the Numidian Cavalry, then the upgrade at Guilds has a decent match with the commercial potential of grocers.
If this is going to turn into a commercial builder marathon, OrgRel will help get all those multipliers in place. Using a neighbor's religion will help reduce the demands on your military.
Final thought (oh thank goodness): Fishing + Mining + Financial is Elizabeth, so review the ideas from the opening of that game.
Yuck. What a mess....
A UU that calls for two completely dead end techs. Furthermore, you need Animal Loving to expose the resource, and that tech has less than its usual leverage as (1) you aren't starting with either of the pre-requisites, and (2) being Financial, your natural route to writing is through Pottery.
Fishing takes a serious hit if your opening settler starts inland. If you have a two food water tile handy you can use if for a faster initial tech pace, but probably not enough faster to snag a religion, since you have to get through Mysticism first.
Mining is one of my least favorite opening techs - its a lovely stepping stone to Bronze Working, and worth some quick happy (but you are Charismatic, so that has less than the usual leverage) and commerce if you get a luxury metal in the fat cross, but it hasn't been my habit to mine hills during the opening (again, especially if you are intending to pop rush your workers and settlers). And the pairing of Fishing and Mining isn't a particularly good one - your workboats can't leverage mining at all, and you lose some of fishing's upside if you have to wait on the boat to get a worker out first. If you do go workboat first, then then you aren't going to be swinging the axe for a while, which depreciates the early research of Bronze Working....
Your unique building is a Harbor replacement, which suggests Iron Working, but swords and horse archers are somewhat overlapping. Part of the point of the unique units is that you can delay researching some of the other units of that era - wasted if you have to go that direction anyway.
Pottery is a big deal for a financial civ, and you've at last got a pre-req, but you don't need roads for your fish, so that The Wheel isn't as valuble early.
Charismatic calls for Mysticism to harvest extra happy, but Financial doesn't have any particularly strong synergy with the early parts of the religious tree, unless you can somehow manage to snag Buddhism - so what are you going to do with the Great Prophet, now that the slingshot to Civil Service has been nerfed.
And as Sisiutil already pointed out, there are no discounted buildings to fold into the strategy.
Olivia Newton John said:
OK, instead of concentrating on what isn't there, lets look at what is available. Horse based unique units suggest defending with Chariots instead of Axes, and we wanted the wheel early for pottery anyway, so there's something of a match there.
The traderoute boost for the Cothon improves the leverage of coastal cities, which leans toward the Great Lighthouse, which yields Great Merchant points, and Civil Service is fairly high on the GM lightbulb list, which would give an extra kick to the trade routes to the capital (the extra size available in the capital, courtesy of the happy and health boni, should boost the value of the trade routes as well). There's some care that needs to be taken for the lightbulb....
Currency
Metal Casting
Code of Laws
Monarchy
Civil Service
Currency unlocks Code of Laws, so the usual route through the religious tree can be bypassed. Metal Casting is in the way, but Colossus fits reasonably with coastal cities and a GM harvest, so that's not too awful. Code of Laws can be used for a quick does of Caste Merchants to speed the sling - you'll want to revolt to Bureaucracy anyway, so the switch back out of Caste System is free.
(Temple of Artemis might also be an interesting choice. The building gives merchant points and the free priest gives prophet points, for a total of 5 GPP/turn, with a 50-50 split on delivering a prophet or merchant. The Prophet would be unfortunate, but maybe it can be used to set up an early gold city).
Another alternative: Great Wall (which allows some luxury on the choice of farming coins or hammers, since barbs are less of an issue), then use the 100 point GE to pop the lighthouse outside the capital, intending to stack some merchants with it via Caste System to hurry the merchant @200. Does that timing work, or will the AI score the lighthouse too early?
Basically, look at the local rocks and resources, and figure out which of the early wonders to pull in.
Depending on the commerce slider and the timing of the technologies, it may make sense to go for an early Academy @100, to pop CS with the Merchant @200.
Financial and Charismatic don't look to me to have a clear tech intersection, but if you've been using the Numidian Cavalry, then the upgrade at Guilds has a decent match with the commercial potential of grocers.
If this is going to turn into a commercial builder marathon, OrgRel will help get all those multipliers in place. Using a neighbor's religion will help reduce the demands on your military.
Eddie Izzard said:
Final thought (oh thank goodness): Fishing + Mining + Financial is Elizabeth, so review the ideas from the opening of that game.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Why oh why does everybody get Victoria and Elizabeth mixed up?!?
A good point though, I'll have a look at the Vicky pre-game thread to see if there's any ideas. Interesting that Hannibal shares the opening techs of Rome and England, my two favourite off-line civs. I can't help thinking that Carthage's UU should have been a beefed-up War Elephant--maybe 2 moves per turn? I seem to recall it was Hannibal's elephants that kept giving Romans the willies.
Good points about some of the lack of synergy. But like I first said, the main synergy seems to be between the UB, the starting tech (fishing), and finding the coast.
carl corey
Deity
Well, you can forgive him this time. 
Both DO start with the same techs and have Financial in common. He just forgot which one you played with.
The problem with a War Elephant UU is that quite often (always?) there's ivory on only one continent. Of course there are other map types too...
Both DO start with the same techs and have Financial in common. He just forgot which one you played with.The problem with a War Elephant UU is that quite often (always?) there's ivory on only one continent. Of course there are other map types too...
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
"Between the UB and the Fishing starting tech, let's keep our fingers crossed for a coastal start. Whether we get it or not, we'll be hoping to build several coastal cities, so let's also hope the map generator cooperates and gives us some good locations for them with plenty of seafood."
i know that you like to stick to continents to keep the game settings the same for comparison purposes, and that's cool by me. but i hope you're not opposed to rerolling a start if you don't begin on or quite near the coast. IMO the pseudo-artificiality of that would be justified given that you do want to focus on how to use him strategically and without coastal city spots nearby you'd be missing out on a lot.
side-note #1: i laughed so hard i scared my dogs at reading in the Monty ALC "The whole time, though, something kept nagging at me. I couldn't shake the feeling that time was passing and that I had something important to do. The game even felt a little--boring, unsatisfying. What was the problem?!? Then I realized: I wasn't at war! I was itching for battle! Yes, playing as Montezuma has finally, once and for all, cured me of builder addiction; I am now a devoted warmonger. A barb city sprang up again just south of Thebes, but even razing it didn't satisfy me." since i'd started reading the later games i thought of you as a natural warmonger. discovering that you'd started as a builder was a hilarious surprise.
side-note #2: thanks for the pointer to aelf's EMC threads! i'd not been reading those since the word "Emporer" strikes fear into my heart. they're great!
i know that you like to stick to continents to keep the game settings the same for comparison purposes, and that's cool by me. but i hope you're not opposed to rerolling a start if you don't begin on or quite near the coast. IMO the pseudo-artificiality of that would be justified given that you do want to focus on how to use him strategically and without coastal city spots nearby you'd be missing out on a lot.
side-note #1: i laughed so hard i scared my dogs at reading in the Monty ALC "The whole time, though, something kept nagging at me. I couldn't shake the feeling that time was passing and that I had something important to do. The game even felt a little--boring, unsatisfying. What was the problem?!? Then I realized: I wasn't at war! I was itching for battle! Yes, playing as Montezuma has finally, once and for all, cured me of builder addiction; I am now a devoted warmonger. A barb city sprang up again just south of Thebes, but even razing it didn't satisfy me." since i'd started reading the later games i thought of you as a natural warmonger. discovering that you'd started as a builder was a hilarious surprise.
side-note #2: thanks for the pointer to aelf's EMC threads! i'd not been reading those since the word "Emporer" strikes fear into my heart. they're great!
If there was ever a War Elephant UU it'd make sense to make it a Resourceless UU like the Aztec Jaguar or Arab Camel Archer or else or else it'd be a totally useless UU due to the fact that you can't even build it, especially if your resource is on the other side of the world.
carl corey
Deity
A War Elephant without an Elephant? Meaning your unit would be "War"? Works for me. 
Joking aside, even if ivory is on your continent, it's usually not as common as copper/iron or horses. So it would be only by a freak accident that you'd be able to build your UU. For the sake of it they could have made it resourceless, but it seems a bit weird.
Joking aside, even if ivory is on your continent, it's usually not as common as copper/iron or horses. So it would be only by a freak accident that you'd be able to build your UU. For the sake of it they could have made it resourceless, but it seems a bit weird.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
I may regenerate the map here just to ensure that we can utilize Hannibal's traits. I don't usually do that with the ALCs--okay, a couple of times, I'm not saying when --but I'm sure it's not uncommon for players to do so. I don't and won't "peek" in world builder, though, to ensure the rest of the map is copacetic. The maps I drew for the Mao, Louis, Huayna and Alexander games are certainly proof of that! I prefer to live my Dr. EJ's dictum as quoted in my sig.
I do regenerate the map sometimes for my offline games, but not ridiculously. Every now and then I can see that I'm surrounded by tundra or desert in the fog, and sometimes I have absolutely NO resources in the potential capital's fat cross. And yes, if I start with fishing, I hate finding myself inland. Maybe it's cheating, but if I'm going to invest several hours of my free time in a Monarch-level game, I want it to be worthwhile. If I'm relaxing on a down-level Prince game, though, I'll usually settle for whatever start I get, even if it's sub-optimal.
Good points, everyone, about the usual one-continent-only location of ivory and its implications for a war elephant UU. That explains why Hannibal gets Numidian Cavalry instead of Super War Elephants. Too bad, though--SWEs would just freakin' PWN, donchathink? Kind of like an ancient tank...
--but I'm sure it's not uncommon for players to do so. I don't and won't "peek" in world builder, though, to ensure the rest of the map is copacetic. The maps I drew for the Mao, Louis, Huayna and Alexander games are certainly proof of that! I prefer to live my Dr. EJ's dictum as quoted in my sig. I do regenerate the map sometimes for my offline games, but not ridiculously. Every now and then I can see that I'm surrounded by tundra or desert in the fog, and sometimes I have absolutely NO resources in the potential capital's fat cross. And yes, if I start with fishing, I hate finding myself inland. Maybe it's cheating, but if I'm going to invest several hours of my free time in a Monarch-level game, I want it to be worthwhile. If I'm relaxing on a down-level Prince game, though, I'll usually settle for whatever start I get, even if it's sub-optimal.
Good points, everyone, about the usual one-continent-only location of ivory and its implications for a war elephant UU. That explains why Hannibal gets Numidian Cavalry instead of Super War Elephants. Too bad, though--SWEs would just freakin' PWN, donchathink? Kind of like an ancient tank...
carl corey
Deity
Think of it like this: would your people learn how to fish on the great plains where the only water comes from rain? Of course you'd like to be on the coast (river fishing not being possible here). So if you want to have a coastal start just go for a coastal start.
