ALC Game #22 Take 2: Arabs/Saladin

[Lord Chambers]

How can people start talking about wonders and tech paths already? We haven't even explored our starting location. How do we know what's north of those rivers, or east of the wheat? How can we just settle without knowing our options? We might get stuck with a crappy capital! Having iron, copper, or horses in our BFC will easily make up for the 10 or 12 turns spent exploring in the long run. I think, like our great people strategy, we need to think long term. Tech bronze working and iron working while moving your units east, then build the Great Wall and steal techs while you beeline stirrup. Promote the horsemen to Camel Archers when we get guilds using money stolen with your EPs, and conquer the world. QED really.

 

[Nares]

Promote the horsemen to Camel Archers when we get guilds using money stolen with your EPs, and conquer the world.

From what I understand, stealing money isn't exactly a worthwhile endeavor.

 

[Bandobras Took]

. . . then build the Great Wall and steal techs while you beeline stirrup . . .

That was my favorite part.

 

[Nares]

On taking a look at the tech trees, I notice that there's a path through the religions to Liberalism. There's a number of techs you'll need to avoid, at least for the short term, but it seems to play to what Saladin offers, particularly in that it relies on Great Prophets and Great Scientists.

 

[TheDifficult3rd]

How can people start talking about wonders and tech paths already? We haven't even explored our starting location.

You have read an ALC before, right?

 

[carl corey]

Anyway, we're about done. 10 pages before settling your capital is the norm.

 

[NaZdReG]

I think we should leverage the stone to chop out the great wall (it only takes 2 forests honestly) not only will this illeviate barb pressure, but the great spy will let sisuitil catch up on tech right away.

not to mention that we don't see that gambit in here all that often

NaZ

 

[Nares]

not to mention that we don't see that gambit in here all that often

Time and place, is my opinion.

MadScientist has an espionage thread floating around somewhere using Toku, because Toku offers no economic support.

Saladin is a touch better. I'm almost completely supportive of some sort of Prophet/Scientist duo for a (relatively) direct path to Liberalism. You only need one of each, which is good because I don't think you can reliably produce more than three to four Great People in this time.

 

[slaze]

Settle in the original spot and build a warrior using both 3 tiles. Grow to pop 3, use max hammers to finish, then build a worker. Research agriculture.

 

[slaze]

Settle in the original spot and build a warrior using both 3 tiles. Grow to pop 3, use max hammers to finish, then build a worker. Research agriculture.

And Archery

 

[URSExelcior]

My 2 for future ALC's is to just settle in place right away. Having 10 pages discussing the FIRST TURN of the game is too much, especially since there's usually 50 people suggesting the same thing. IMO it doesn't matter too much if you miss a resource in your BFC because another city will claim it later on, so you'll have two strong cities instead of a super-capital and a mediocre city. Settle in place and move on to more interesting parts of the game.

 

[carl corey]

Heh, this *is* an interesting part of the game.

 

[Bandobras Took]

My 2 for future ALC's is to just settle in place right away. Having 10 pages discussing the FIRST TURN of the game is too much, especially since there's usually 50 people suggesting the same thing.

Since almost nobody has suggested the same thing so far, I think this complaint falls flat.

IMO it doesn't matter too much if you miss a resource in your BFC because another city will claim it later on, so you'll have two strong cities instead of a super-capital and a mediocre city.

On the contrary, special resource tiles happen to be the largest producers in the early game. Having extra commerce, hammers, and/or food before producing your first Settler can have a huge impact.

Settle in place and move on to more interesting parts of the game.

If this were an uninteresting part of the game, there wouldn't be 10 pages of discussion on it.

 

[vicawoo]

Moonsinger once spent over 10 turns moving her settler on a deity game on marathon. I have no qualms about spending 5 turns moving to get closer to an enemy AI (which saves turns in a rush) or block off for better resources. I don't see how lacking worker techs warrants worrying.

Pyramids is not always a priority, even with stone. If you're racing to grab a valuable city spot, I'm prioritizing a settler.

Pros and cons of great wall. In this case, you don't have to tech hunting (which you don't need because of the corn) and archery early, so that's like two free starting techs. You save 10 hammers normal, 15 epic on warriors, and you can even expand with a naked settler if you're careful.
The rest I'm more skeptical about, like the so-called defensive wars to pump great generals. In theory, you could do some synergistic great spy/espionage bureau/cheap castle thing.

Downside is you're delaying an early city. On the upside, if you have masonry early, you can put in hammers while growing to your happy cap.

 

[aelf]

Don't research IW until and unless you really need it. Go for BW and AH and then move right on to Masonry and start on the Pyramids once you have one or two settlers out. Chances are there are at least horses to tide you through the early part of the game. Try to trade for IW if you find copper. If not, still don't research it until after Masonry.

Not getting Pyramids when there is stone so near your capital is rather a waste. The advice not to build Pyramids and build more settlers/units instead loses its importance as you progress up the difficulty levels and happiness caps get lower. Also, as beelining becomes more important, getting the extra beakers from specialists is a good thing. Throw in the Madrassa and there's almost no question that it's the best way to go.

 

[Nares]

In theory, you could do some synergistic great spy/espionage bureau/cheap castle thing.

I think that's more appropriate for Wang Kon or Sitting Bull.

 

[Airefuego]

OK: it's time!

Move settler 1 north, settle, forget Stonehenge, get Ag and a worker, corn it up, get masonry... and... GO!

then post and we can decide if we want GW or not (I tend towards yes) before Mids.

 

[Shoot the Moon]

OK: it's time!

Move settler 1 north, settle, forget Stonehenge, get Ag and a worker, corn it up, get masonry... and... GO!

then post and we can decide if we want GW or not (I tend towards yes) before Mids.

Agreed.

10 characters.

 

[slaze]

Move settler 1 north,

1 north, huh. I didn't even see 1 north. I like 1 north.

Or the original spot. either way

 

[zombiestomp]

my thinking is, and i would like to be corrected if i'm wrong, but if sisi had settled in place and chopped the 'henge without stone, the second border pop would come at 150 culture on epic. he would have +2 culture from the palace and +8 culture from the 'henge, and the second border would pop in less than 15 turns.

you would lose some hammers, not having the stone to boost chops. however, you would want to eventually chop all those riverside forests anyway.

next, get masonry, hook up the stone and chop the 'mids.

the 'mids are super important in this ALC. the bonus that sally gets with the madrassa is lots of early specialists. giving those specialists an extra +3 beakers through representation is the way to exploit his advantage. the 'henge is never a game breaker, but in this game it gives you an all important early 2nd border pop, plus almost half a creative trait (minus the build bonus).

i'll make a gentleman's bet that 2 east 1 south of the start has a strategic resource. someone send me a spoiler to settle this.

my point is to settle at the start. build a warrior, grow to size two while researching bronze. build a worker, chop the 'henge while growing to size four and building more warriors. build/whip a settler while researching archery so you can protect those cities with archers. pass on the great wall and tech towards writing through animal husbandry. whip madrassas and more military while teching towards currency and then code of laws.

if you just restart and settle in place, i wouldn't hold it against you.