[C3C] Allowing barbarians to enslave units

[ThesaurusRex]

Coming back to this game I'm honestly impressed by the level at which people have utterly modified parts of the game I was positive were irreversibly hard-coded.

How exactly it's done is over my head at the moment, but it's brought back something I've wanted to make possible for a while: what would it take to mod the game to where barbarians can enslave (and potentially also change the probabilities of enslavement)? This would open up whole new possibilities for barb units in the game, even if it has to be a modified .exe like I've seen in other custom scenarios.

 

[vmxa]

JT can already enslave and Civinator made units to enslave, so it seems doable.

 

[tjs282]

Allowing a unit to enslave is simple. Go to the "Units" tab in the Editor, select a unit to modify, give them the "Enslave" ability ("Unit-actions" on the right-hand side; along with Load, Upgrade, Pillage, etc.), and set a unit to be Enslaved by that unit (bottom right drop-down menu: "Enslave results in").

In the base-game, Barbs have access to Warriors, Horsemen and Galleys, so by giving any of those 3 units the "Enslave"-ability, that should in theory allow Barbs to enslave. Unless the game is hardcoded to prevent the enslavement-ability from working for "A Barbarian Chiefdom". Which it might be (dunno, never tried).

(But even if the Barbs can't, the other AI-Civs who can build Warriors/ Horsemen/ Galleys will certainly be able to use that ability — even if not as systematically as the human might)

 

[justanick]

A potential problem with enslavement is what type of unit is created by it. The mayan Javelin Thrower enslaves to workers. But barbarians cannot capture workers, they are destroyed. So that needs to be thought about.

If you make privateers available to barbarians(it seems prudent to replace the galley), then it may work as one might expect.

 

[tjs282]

But barbarians cannot capture workers, they are destroyed. So that needs to be thought about.

I agree that Workers controlled by other civilizations are destroyed.

But do you know for certain that a theoretical "Worker(Barbarian)" would be destroyed if a Barb mil-unit moved into its tile?

And if so, would that be because the (unmodded) Worker-unit is not available to the "Barbarian Chiefdom"?

If you make privateers available to barbarians(it seems prudent to replace the galley)

Why so?

Galleys (Barb or otherwise) will generally be fighting Curraghs, other Galleys, and early Medieval ships, so having Galleys able to "capture" an enemy Galley seems quite reasonable to me.

Seagoing nations have been using ship-capture as a means of expanding their fleets, ever since >1 seagoing nation existed; but with only Privateers and MoWs having the Enslave-ability in unmodded C3C, that is not modelled very well.

 

[CorvusFortis]

So let's assume, that I make basic barbarian unit a Warrior and Advanced is Horseman. Then I set warrior to ensave Swordsman and Horseman to enslave Knight. Then I set Swordsman to ensave Longbowman and Knight to Enslave Cavalry and so on. Does this mean that we can have infinte number of barbarian unit types via enslavement?

 

[Civinator]

JT can already enslave and Civinator made units to enslave, so it seems doable.

A lot can be done by enslaving, but unfortunately Barbarian units are not able to enslave other units, even when they are set for enslaving in the editor. I tested this a longer time ago when creating CCM 2.

 

[tjs282]

Unless the game is hardcoded to prevent the enslavement-ability from working for "A Barbarian Chiefdom". Which it might be (dunno, never tried).

A lot can be done by enslaving, but unfortunately Barbarian units are not able to enslave other units. I tested this a longer time ago when creating CCM 2.

Well, there we have it, the Word from On High...

What a pity.

Does this mean that we can have infinte number of barbarian unit types via enslavement?

IIRC, each level of basic barb-unit is enabled when a certain number of Civs (2?) know the prereq-tech(s) for that unit -- i.e. Barb Horses start appearing when 2 Civs know WarCode + Wheel, Galleys when 2 Civs know Pots + Writing.

So it sounds like the only way to give Barbs more advanced units than a Horseman and Galley, might be to change the second unit and naval unit to something available with a (much) later tech, e.g. LBM, Rifleman or Guerilla, and Privateer (as @justanick suggested).

But unless you also made more terrains non-Settle-able, and/or played Huge+ maps to prevent (AI-Civ) Culture from fully occupying all tiles (due to the 512 city-limit), thus leaving space for new Barb-camps to continue to spawn into the mid-/late game, then you might never see the advanced Barb unit.

 

[Virote_Considon]

But do you know for certain that a theoretical "Worker(Barbarian)" would be destroyed if a Barb mil-unit moved into its tile?

You can give barbarians workers (either as one of their two units, or preplace them on the map). They won't move them or do anything with them, but they won't be destroyed. If a human or AI player takes the tile then they'll capture the workers as normal and they'll be tagged as originally belonging to A Barbarian Chiefdom, but the barbarians will still kill them if they capture them back.

 

[ThesaurusRex]

A lot can be done by enslaving, but unfortunately Barbarian units are not able to enslave other units, even when they are set for enslaving in the editor. I tested this a longer time ago when creating CCM 2.

This. I figured at this point everyone knew barbs couldn't enslave. Which is why I'm asking: if the game can now be modded to make razing impossible or to allow cities to be built right next to each other, then can barbarian mechanics be changed as well?

 

[justanick]

Why so?

Because it requires minimal changes and makes for easy testing. So my idea was just about easy testing. But since comprehensive testing has been done already by Civinator we now know that barbarians cannot enslave.

 

[Civinator]

This. I figured at this point everyone knew barbs couldn't enslave. Which is why I'm asking: if the game can now be modded to make razing impossible or to allow cities to be built right next to each other, then can barbarian mechanics be changed as well?

This would be a case for Flintlock writing an additional code for his patch project or for the programming of C7.

 

[ThesaurusRex]

This would be a case for Flintlock writing an additional code for his patch project or for the programming of C7.

That would be tight.

Though in C7's case the barbs could get a much more expansive treatment.

A vanilla workaround solution would be to have an unplayable AI civ have hidden nationality units all over the map. But hidden-nat units that can bombard tend to give away their nationality in a prompt (if they succeed). And non-combat hidden nat units in general tend to have some weird behavior...

 

[Theov]

I have 3 dedicated Barbarian Units.
A Barbarian Warrior, a Barbarian Rider (mounted) and a Barbarian Galley (upgraded Galley).
The Rider can enslave and enslavement turns into a Barb Warrior.
They are already beefed up units, so I didnt make the Barb Warrior also enslave. But I could if I wanted to.

I also turned the Mongians into barbarians by allowing them to buile these units as HN units.

There are more things how I want to change the Mongolians this way, but thats for another time.

I thought it worked fine, but you're saying it doesnt?

 

[Alekseyev_]

A unit owned by barbarians cannot enslave. A HN faux-barbarian unit owned by a real civ can.