Alternate History Thread III

Sometimes I'm grateful China was never conquered in name by the Europeans and yet sometimes I regret that didn't happen... Victoria, Empress of China! :lol:

Well what would it have really given them that internal evolution wouldn't have? The British "gave" India a national identity and some measure of effective civil service that it would have been very difficult IMHO for a native power to do (since they would have had to conquer and hold their gains whilst defending their power base - the British always had the external empires resources to fall back on).

@das what British south american holdings? With the crappiness of this Congress of Vienna it is unlikely the British would get Guyuna - more likely it would end up French or remain Dutch
 
Well what would it have really given them that internal evolution wouldn't have? The British "gave" India a national identity and some measure of effective civil service that it would have been very difficult IMHO for a native power to do (since they would have had to conquer and hold their gains whilst defending their power base - the British always had the external empires resources to fall back on).

For one thing, it would have stripped away much of the weighty bureaucracy China always seems to accumulate. The Communists were hardly effective at getting rid of bureaucracy; if anything, it's higher now than it was under the Qing. Brief British rule might have helped permanently reduce the amount of inefficiency in China, or at least for a few generations (as the Mongols/Yuan did for about a hundred years).
 
Work is progressing nicely on the map. Have reduced the amount of eco-centres by quite a bit, as they tend to clutter the map. I'll do a re-vamped eco-system instead to have a bigger spread between nations than the normal one. I think. You'll all have a chance to come with input once I get the preview threat up.

So far the French have the most (as it should be) with 9. Great Britain have 7, Portugal 6 and the Ottomans and the Russians will have 5 each. Most nations will have 1 at most with a few nations having 2-4.
Just to show an example of cuts, my beloved Denmark-Norway have been reduced on the map from their initial 4 down to just two.

Tomorrow will be too busy to do any work and Tuesday likewise. Now, I'm still working on the map. Basically, I've only adjusted eco-centres in Europe. The other continents still need to be done and a few borders might still be altered (particularly in Africa and Asia). For sake of maintaining interest I'll show you what I have so far ;)

Spoiler :

hqnesiii1826qu3.png

 
I really doubt the British would have even WANTED to conquer China. What exactly is there of value for them there? IMHO whatever benefits they could've received would have been outweighed by the enormous work they would have had to do to make it possible to run it. I suppose they could've conquered the Guangdong Province, but probably not much else. Really, the way China was after the Taiping Rebellion was probably the optimal scenario for the British, if we forget about the way their influence and control there eroded afterwards.

@das what British south american holdings? With the crappiness of this Congress of Vienna it is unlikely the British would get Guyuna - more likely it would end up French or remain Dutch

Who needs a Congress of Vienna? Just go in and grab it; 'tis the British way, at least prior to 18th century! Anyway, I was thinking about Argentina; its a natural goal, they tried to take it in OTL and here they will be able and willing to allocate more resources there.

On the map, are you sure France should have so much of Canada? Also, Rhineland and Belgium should really be French, as should Geneve I think. Not sure about Milan.

Britain deserves more ECs! Dublin at least wasn't the second city of the Kingdom in the 18th century for nothing. Sure, it was caught up with since then, but still.
 
Flanders is a good point. It'll be altered.

Was Dublin that large? I'll look into it. I'm trying to reduce the number of Eco-centres quite a bit, and I'm far from done. With their American losses I'm strongly considering upgrading Port Royale on Jamaica.

Canada... meh... no real difference. I can reduce it a bit and add it to the US. Rhineland is simple. I can just do away with some of the minor states. Will also make it easier for me ;)

Edit: A few changes to the map. Asia still needs some work, but otherwise it is getting close. The British have gained two more centres.

Spoiler :

hqnesiii1826ux7.png

 
@das- The NWC was based in Montreal, Quebec, so it would have been fine. Although a bunch of its river routes now go through the US.

Nice map Harl. Netherlands look pretty good too.
 
China deserves more ECs too! To be more specific, Beijing ;)
 
I officially express interest in the USA. And if someone from the Southwest complains, too bloody bad; said someone has had the USA in multiple NESes, and I've barely ever had the chance to play them.
 
I've got an 'okay' AltHist....

D-Day has been launched on June 5, 1944, despite Eisenhower's marked distaste, due to the weather. How right was he....
The weather made it hard for the Allies to see. The Germans saw them, and quickly open mortars. Worse, Erwin Rommel is here, of all places. On Sword, the British had managed to bypass some defenses, before two German armored divisions came. The British held fast, deciding to wait for reinforcements. On Juno, Canadian forces couldn't see very well. They suffer extremely heavy casualties. When the Canadians retreat to 'cover', they have only 700 men left. Gold went okay. The British lost 800 casualties, but succeeded in being the only beach with its defenses secured. Omaha went horrendously, especially since Rommel was there. The Germans sent tanks to flank American positions. Within 5 hours, the Americans had lost 20,000 men. Utah was 'second-best'. The Americans destroyed 86% of the beach defenses before having to retreat to a toehold. However, this toehold disappeared when Panzers and Tigers rolled in. D-Day was a partial failure. The next day, Americans sent men to resecure Utah. They had sent a bomber squad that destroyed most of the Germans. The Americans succeeded in Utah. Omaha had soon been abandoned, with the Americans digging in. On Juno, the Canadians get reinforcements, with 5 bomber squads destroying the defenses. Juno had been secured. Sword had been lost, with the artillery bombardment on the transports and defenses. (Only covering this. Probably not that great, my first 'attempt' )
 
The Wars of Hellas​

Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV.

Summary of events thus far: Aristagoras rebelled against Persia, persuading most of Ionia to join him. He then goes to Hellas in order to get some more allies there. He manages to convince Sparta to help him, as well as Athens, since Athens was ruled by a tyrant put in place by Sparta. With their help, the Ionian revolt is able to succeed, winning their independence and "liberating" Cyprus. This basically causes a Persian implosian, Egypt and Phonecia also revolt and Darius is assasinated, causing a succession war to occur between Darius' sons Xerxes and Artobazanes. Back in Greece, Themistocles overthrows Isagoras as tyrant of Athens, sparking a war between Athens and Sparta which ends in an official draw, but with Themistocles remaining as tyrant of Athens and Athens on the rise as a power.

Warning: The following was intentionally expressed in a certain genre in order to break away from the hordes of das-style clones (nothing against das, he is the undisputed master of alt-historians here and fully deserves to have alt-hist clones). It is not to be taken as “actually” happening. It is intentionally written from a point of view that contains certain biases, but has enough “truth” in it to give one an idea of what is going on in the former Persian Empire at this time.





Part IV (Asia: 494-490 BCE)

Now it came to pass in those days that there went out a messenger from King Xerxes of Persia unto Zerubavel, governor of Judah, saying:

Now remember in your youth, when you were the one of King Darius’ bodyguard, who kept guard over the person of the king, and how because of your wisdom and service, he gave you great gifts, and clothed you in purple, and made you to be called his kinsman, and made you ruler over the Jews. Remember also how he gave you cedar timber from Lebanon, and thirty talents a year, and all you asked for the building of the temple. Now therefore, remember this day his kindness he showed, both to you and your kinsmen and gather an army, and join with us, to punish his murderer.

Now when he heard this, Zerubavel arose, and sent messengers throughout Judah, and gathered a large host at Jerusalem. And he marched out, to give aid to King Xerxes. But while he was still on the road, at outside of Ramah, a man of Adonai[1] stood in his path. And he cried out in a loud voice saying, “What are you doing Zerubavel, son of Shealtiel, and whence do you go with the hosts of Jacob?”

Then Zerubavel answered and said unto him, “I go to give aid unto my lord, King Xerxes as he has commanded.”

Then the prophet replied, “You have no lord but Adonai! Now therefore listen unto his voice. Do not go to Xerxes, king of Persia, neither give him aid. For Adonai has judged that people for their sins, which are an abomination before him. But I have listened to the prayers of my people, and I have heard your cry, how they sought Me with repentance. Therefore, o Son of David, arise, and go to Jerusalem, for I have remembered my promise to my servant David, and you will be king over all of Israel, both you, and your sons, and your sons’ sons, as long as they walk in my law.”

Now when he had finished speaking, the prophet took a horn full of olive oil, and anointed him in the presence of the whole army. After this, the prophet disappeared, and was never again seen in Israel. Then Zerubavel built an altar and worshiped, and called the place, Yalmelek, for there he was made king by Adonai.

Now therefore, the things the prophet had spoken came to pass even as Adonai had said. For Xerxes, was killed at the place called Cunaxa, and many of his men were killed, and Adonai judged him that day, along with his people.….


In the second year of the reign of Zerubavel son of Shealtiel messengers came from King Artobazanes of Persia. And the messenger came to him and said, “People of Judah, do not be mislead by Zerubavel, for he is not able to rescue you from my hand. Don’t let Zerubavel tell you ‘Adonai will certainly rescue us.’ For where was your god in the days of your fathers, when King Nebuchadnezzar took you into captivity? Who then was stronger, your god or the gods of Babylon? Therefore listen to the one who now reigns in Babylon, ‘Send your token of submission and surrender to me. Then I will be gracious towards you and spare your lives, and the lives of your children. But do not trust in your god, for he is nothing to me.’”

Now therefore when Zerubavel heard these things, he went to the temple dressed in sackcloth and ashes. And there he met Joshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest. And Zerubavel raised his voice and lamented, “Woe unto me, that I would live to see such a day! For did not Adonai command me, saying, ‘Do not be afraid, for I have chosen you to be king over my people’? Did he bring his people back to the land of their fathers only to send the people again into captivity?”

Then Joshua the high priest prophesized, saying “Harken unto me Zerubavel, son of Shealtiel. I AM Elohim. Who are the nations of the world before me? And what are their armies? Do the hosts of heaven tremble in fear before them? Did not I bring your father’s out of Egypt with great signs and wonders? Do you think that this is too hard for me? Now hear, O Israel, the armies of Persia will come against you and will prevail for a time, and a half of time. And then all the nations of the world will come together, and speak an oracle against Israel, saying, ‘The armies of Persia are like stars in the sky, who can stand against them?’ Then I Adonai will come with a mighty hand, and deliver you, so that all nations might know that I AM Elohim.”

Now it came to pass just as it was prophesied. For the Persian army came and captured forty-six walled cities, and small towns without number. And Zerubavel marched out, and met the army at Mitzpah. And Adonai was with Zerubavel, and he smote the enemy, eight thousand that day. And Artobazanes fled with his army back to Babylon. Now one day, as he was leaving the temple of his god Marduk, a Babylonian, by the name of Nabuaplausur killed him, so that the word of Adonai might be fulfilled against the one who raised his hand against the chosen ones. After this, Nabuaplausur revolted against Persia and became king of Babylon and Artabanus, the brother of Darius was made king of Persia.

-The Book of Zerubavel




[1]In order to avoid unnecessarily offending any possible Jewish readers, I am using Adonai where I intend the Tetragrammaton to be read, following the Masorites who, in order to avoid pronouncing “The Name”, always read “Adonai.”
 
I officially express interest in the USA. And if someone from the Southwest complains, too bloody bad; said someone has had the USA in multiple NESes, and I've barely ever had the chance to play them.
99% of which die within 4 updates or (usually) less. I have only been able to genuinely play it once. Your argument therefore carries no weight with me. :p
 
I promise to do at least 5 updates then ;)

Taiwan is British because I couldn't really define the colour on the map I took it from and I haven't had time to look it up yet ;)

Beijing? But, I just removed it :p

One pixel lines? Could be done, though beware... Spain is breaking free ;)
 
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