Alternative Map during 1.18

This decision is up to you. The Player.
 
I know it is relatively early to discuss pre-placed cities in the 600 scenario, but how about adding an Indy Gao in West Africa (2E1S from Timbuktu), representing this kingdom/empire which was Mali regional rival and forerunner of the later Songhay Empire?
 
I think it's too early for that.
 
Could you please share your design philosophy on depicting Andean region for the big map/1.18? On Arabian start (620) there are 2 Mesoamerican civs, with possible Indy ciy but Andes are smooth and bare, not even city ruins. Since the early 21st century Caral–Supe (also known as Caral and Norte Chico) has been recognized as the oldest-known civilization in the Americas, and as one of the six sites where civilisation separately originated in the ancient world. The other 5 cradles are prominently present in the game, but one has to wait until the Incas to see some activity in South America. It is well known that Inca Empire was only the last chapter of thousands of years of Andean civilizations.
 
Tigranes said:
Could you please share your design philosophy on depicting Andean region for the big map/1.18? On Arabian start (620) there are 2 Mesoamerican civs, with possible Indy ciy but Andes are smooth and bare, not even city ruins. Since the early 21st century Caral–Supe (also known as Caral and Norte Chico) has been recognized as the oldest-known civilization in the Americas, and as one of the six sites where civilisation separately originated in the ancient world. The other 5 cradles are prominently present in the game, but one has to wait until the Incas to see some activity in South America. It is well known that Inca Empire was only the last chapter of thousands of years of Andean civilizations.
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There are two problems with such civs: 1) we really don't have much information about them, 2) scale effect: since Civ4 and DoC allow themselves certain degree of abstraction when it comes at representing civs (like Greece pretty much never was a united political entity, save for short period of Alexander's conquests), such small civilizations also encompass all their rivals and allies (think Polynesia).

These problems mean that Norte Chico would likely be similar to its implementation in the modmod: a puzzle civilzation like Harappa or Maya, which have 0 impact on the game unless played by a human. I absolutely don't mind puzzle civs, but also don't think they should be priority in any way. Currently there is no way Norte Chico can affect the game unless a human player decides to play them. In fact, it's also direct reason i push for more African civs, because most of current ones are similary isolated and unimportant; adding more African civs adds new, if isolated, theater.
 
TsimTsigal said:
There are two problems with such civs: 1) we really don't have much information about them, 2) scale effect: since Civ4 and DoC allow themselves certain degree of abstraction when it comes at representing civs (like Greece pretty much never was a united political entity, save for short period of Alexander's conquests), such small civilizations also encompass all their rivals and allies (think Polynesia).

These problems mean that Norte Chico would likely be similar to its implementation in the modmod: a puzzle civilzation like Harappa or Maya, which have 0 impact on the game unless played by a human. I absolutely don't mind puzzle civs, but also don't think they should be priority in any way. Currently there is no way Norte Chico can affect the game unless a human player decides to play them. In fact, it's also direct reason i push for more African civs, because most of current ones are similary isolated and unimportant; adding more African civs adds new, if isolated, theater.
Click to expand...
Norte Chico can be an Indy city at the start of the game, like Jerusalem, to make a point, I don't expect them to be a civ. But , for example, the Moche were a technologically advanced people who traded with faraway peoples, like the Maya, so you have some (limited) first millenium interaction there. They can get a dynamic name changes to Wari and later Chimu and fight with rising Incas (kinda like Central Asian civs representing Gokturks-Seljuks-Timurids). We can even predate them with Chavin culture. I share your sentiments on "puzzle civs" but if any region deserves a civ like that -- ancient/medieval Andean civ certainly fits the bill. Andean civilization is one of the six "pristine" civilizations of the world, created independently and without influence by other civilizations. The mod called "Dawn" of Civilization is a very fitting place to celebrate that. If we would to choose between including Toltecs or Andeans , it would be perfectly appropriate to have 2 pre-Colombian civs in Mesoamerica and 2 in Andean region, instead of 3 vs 1 like in current design.
 
Tigranes said:
Could you please share your design philosophy on depicting Andean region for the big map/1.18? On Arabian start (620) there are 2 Mesoamerican civs, with possible Indy ciy but Andes are smooth and bare, not even city ruins. Since the early 21st century Caral–Supe (also known as Caral and Norte Chico) has been recognized as the oldest-known civilization in the Americas, and as one of the six sites where civilisation separately originated in the ancient world. The other 5 cradles are prominently present in the game, but one has to wait until the Incas to see some activity in South America. It is well known that Inca Empire was only the last chapter of thousands of years of Andean civilizations.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you are asking if there will be another civilization there and I have already answered that question.
 
Leoreth said:
It sounds like you are asking if there will be another civilization there and I have already answered that question.
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More like what do you think about the region in this mod... Indy city was also mentioned...
 
What do I think about it? I like it :)
 
Leoreth said:
What do I think about it? I like it :)
Click to expand...
Me too. But currently it is bare. No human activity until arrival of Incas. Let's manifest likes with some activity in said region. At least ancient indy city?
 
What is the point of activity when no one is there?
 
I think an indy city in the ancient Andes is a great idea... when there's something more happening in that region before the Incas spawn. Until then, why clog up the ancient game engine with a city and units that serve no purpose to the wider game?
 
But is anything happening? There is a city scripted to appear.
 
Ballazic said:
Doesn't having an indy city that no one would interact with just slow the game up?
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Very very little. Plus, people roleplay sometimes, boost themselves via Worldbuilder, Polynesians arriving to Latin Americas , or Mayan/Toltec boats. Plus its s placeholder for the future nagging to get a proper Andean civ. Baby steps.
 
Leoreth said:
But is anything happening? There is a city scripted to appear.
Click to expand...
Oh it does? In what year please? There was nothing in 620 AD.
 
Last edited:
Leoreth said:
The map branch is not for playing.
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Understood from OP, but this is more a discussion of map's dynamic feature (spawning city) rather than AAR.
 
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