America: Land of the Contentiously-Named People (split off from Random Rants LXX)

[Yeekim]

No they don't. This is factually incorrect.

?
I'm one of those people...

 

[Arakhor]

No they don't. This is factually incorrect.

I don't see how you can claim to know that "some" people don't say that.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Yes, you're saying that you don't use it this way and you're saying that you don't use it that way just talking about its use, it's just that when the Canadians in the thread are telling you not to use "American" that way, you may be agreeing that you'd personally not do that but you're still insisting on its technical correctness, because you care more about being right about this minor linguistical and rhetorical point than you care about how others feel about what you're saying. It would be like, as others said, insisting that residents of Ireland are British because they're a part of the British Isles. Or, as I was trying to say, insisting that a trans woman is male because technically, her sex is male even though her gender isn't, and continuing to insist that calling her male is technically correct and other people would do that even if you personally wouldn't.

Put another way: In a strict sense, you're not really wrong, but you're kinda being a jerk.

Me "insisting" in this way didn't just pop up out of thin air you know. Go back and read how it started (if that's still possible, what with the thread splitting). I'll give you a quick summary though:

• I made a general comment about "American tipping culture", which as far as I recall was a reply to a small discussion involving several people who I suppose I assumed were American (as in USAian), but as it wasn't addressed directly to them anyway it didn't really matter.
• Valka stomped in and corrected me that one of the people (probably the one I was replying to or had quoted) was actually Canadian and not American, and that I should have known that despite their location info not being displayed under their name, because apparently I'm supposed to know everything Valka knows, or to have read all the threads she has read. In my opinion she was already being a jerk herself at this point.
• I made a simple throwaway comment to her about how well... technically they're still American.
• She just gave me a flat "no" and told me I was wrong, about something that I'm clearly not actually wrong about. She didn't start off by saying it was offensive, or that she'd like me not to do it, that didn't come up until later. She just said I was wrong.
• She then made several replies saying the same thing over and over, with no actual argument at any point, just "you're wrong, and I've already told you you're wrong so shut up" essentially.
• At no point during the whole exchange was she ever polite to me. She started off with instant belligerence and maintained that tone throughout.

So yeah... sorry but I'm not going to feel too bad about being a "jerk" in response to that.

 

[Cutlass]

No they don't. This is factually incorrect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Americans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America

The terms have enough usage that they have wiki entries.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

?
I'm one of those people...

I don't see how you can claim to know that "some" people don't say that.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I said. No. This isn't a term that is used. It's not correct. Stop being jerks.

 

[Arakhor]

Perhaps you misunderstood what I said. No. This isn't a term that is used. It's not correct. Stop being jerks.

Apparently it is. Just because we don't use it in Britain hardly means that no one does, which rather seems to be the topic of late.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Apparently it is. Just because we don't use it in Britain hardly means that no one does, which rather seems to be the topic of late.

No. It's not. I don't know why you're continuing to be offensive like this. You're disagreeing with me and I find it personally offensive and I don't see why you can't understand that my personal offence is objectively more important than you continuing to post this nonsense, no matter how "factual" you seem to think it is.

 

[Borachio]

At this point, can I just butt in and say that I'd like you to find me disagreeing you with personally offensive too?

Or would that be just too personally offensive?

This is how world wars start, isn't it? With people disagreeing with each other. And taking offence over it.

Can I engineer some kind of border dispute over this?

---------

Anyway, I read today that Canada ("village" in Iroquois - rather inappropriate for a nation state, imo) is busily renaming all sorts of places.

Amherst - was it? - seems to be getting slated for some reason, in particular. Maybe it was his genocidal tendencies.

 

[Arakhor]

No. It's not. I don't know why you're continuing to be offensive like this. You're disagreeing with me and I find it personally offensive and I don't see why you can't understand that my personal offence is objectively more important than you continuing to post this nonsense, no matter how "factual" you seem to think it is.

I'm going to assume that you're now parodying someone else.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I'm going to assume that you're now parodying someone else.

Indeed I was.

I was expecting it to be apparent, but actually I think the way that you, Yeekim and Cutlass responded when you didn't realise that is quite telling.

 

[Borachio]

Hmm. Who were you parodying?

I'll take a guess shall I?

Nope.

Not going to happen.

Even though I think I know.

 

[Ryika]

I actually remembered something right now, a conversation I had with a friend a few moths ago, in which he took offense at being called "a European", even though he is from Germany. He really doesn't like the EU, and thinks - probably rightfully - that the EU is designed to over time absorb the European countries into one big entity. He really didn't like the idea of being an "EU citizen", even though by virtue of living in Germany, he literally has "EU citizenship", and he disliked the idea so much, that mentioning that he lives on the land mass called Europe annoyed him.

I guess that's pretty similar to the happenings in this thread.

So what did we learn?
_______________

"I'm from Germany."

"Oh, so you're European."

_______________

Not to be confused with:

"I'm from Europe."

"Oh, so you're German."

 

[Evie]

I wasn't calling you transphobic, just trying to make a point about how you're arguing your points, like here:



Yes, you're saying that you don't use it this way and you're saying that you don't use it that way just talking about its use, it's just that when the Canadians in the thread are telling you not to use "American" that way, you may be agreeing that you'd personally not do that but you're still insisting on its technical correctness, because you care more about being right about this minor linguistical and rhetorical point than you care about how others feel about what you're saying. It would be like, as others said, insisting that residents of Ireland are British because they're a part of the British Isles. Or, as I was trying to say, insisting that a trans woman is male because technically, her sex is male even though her gender isn't, and continuing to insist that calling her male is technically correct and other people would do that even if you personally wouldn't.

As an actual transwoman AND an actual Canadian: PLEASE. STOP. This comparison is bovine manure and downright insulting.

 

[Takhisis]

Yeah, no, chox, I can tell that you're not purposefully setting out to insult Evie, but this thread is precisely about calling people something they neither identify as nor enjoy being called.

 

[Broken_Erika]

You earthlings with your silly human tribalisms! The Martians are laughing at you!

 

[Takhisis]

Oi, you! Get rid of that horrible Xmas hat in your avatar!

 

[Broken_Erika]

Now you've done it!
*revs chainsaw*

 

[Snerk]

You earthlings with your silly human tribalisms! The Martians are laughing at you!

Martians? Surely you mean Native Martians, you brute!!

 

[choxorn]

Not sure who's the bigger jerk, honestly. Any reasonable exchange would need to go no further than:

A: Technically, you're still x, though.
B: Technically, yes. But would you mind not calling me x? I'd prefer y which is also true and more precise.
A: Sure.
B: Cool.

Well, yes, but the problem is when either, somewhere in this exchange, someone is being unnecessarily rude about it, or arguing things that shouldn't really be argued, like if A, instead of just leaving it as "Sure," saying something like "Sure, but I'm still technically right," which is the point I've been trying (and kinda failing) to make in my posts.

As an actual transwoman AND an actual Canadian: PLEASE. STOP. This comparison is bovine manure and downright insulting.

My apologies, it seemed like a valid analogy at the time but it really wasn't as comparable as I thought it was. I was wrong, and I'm sorry for not understanding that.

 

[Ryika]

Well, yes, but the problem is when either, somewhere in this exchange, someone is being unnecessarily rude about it, or arguing things that shouldn't really be argued, like if A, instead of just leaving it as "Sure," saying something like "Sure, but I'm still technically right," which is the point I've been trying (and kinda failing) to make in my posts.

But the problem began further down the line. The conversation was more like:

A: Well, you are part of the X landmass, so technically, you're x.
B: No, I'm y, and I want to be called y.
A: Sure, I'll call you y. But you are still part of the x landmass.
B: No, don't call me x! That's rude!

When B insists that A is doing something bad, even though A has been saying from the very beginning that they're willing to call B whatever they want to be called, then it's completely reasonable for A to respond to that accusation. The only thing you can really say about B is that they should probably have realized at some point that A has trouble comprehending the distinction and is blinded by emotions while pretty much everybody else has already understood it and moved on.