~Corsair#01~
Deity
What a brilliantly consistent ideology.
American Nationalist Union
- Thread starter Riesstiu IV
- Start date
Well, the following chunks could readily find themselves in a libertarian ideology, I'm thinking:
Mulholland
Happy New Year!!!!
Souds like China's old policy of turning inward. Would this group actually expect the rest of the world to continue buying American goods if this were to happen. It would be very effective in cutting out a global market numbering in the billions. It would probably also help to throw the world into another great depression. If I were an anarchist I'd be in.
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
@@ID
Balance the federal budget every year and return to a constitutional money system.
--Thus eliminating fiscal policy and solely relying on monetary policy. Not many libertarians would be for that
Abolish the IRS and the federal income tax, to be replaced with tariffs and a consumption tax of no more than 8%.
--IRS yeah, but consumption tax isn't that popular (tends to hurt the poorer without some regulatory oversight). Try a flat tax instead.
Repeal all gun control legislation, and reaffirm the Second Amendment right of all law-abiding Americans to be armed in order to protect their family and property, and, when necessary, be able to defend against governmental tyranny.
--Well yeah.
Greatly reduce the size of the federal government, ending the permanent welfare/warfare state by restricting the federal government only to those powers granted it by the Constitution, and returning power to the people at the local and state levels.
--Sorta yeah.
Support private schools and home schooling, and return control of public schools to local communities.
--50/50 amongst libertarians. Some supprot public school, some dont
Allow self-determination for all peoples and nations, while opposing the exploitation or oppression of any country or group of people.
--pretty universal statement right?
Terminate NATO and substantially reduce the United States' worldwide military empire, end internal meddling in the affairs of other countries, while maintaining a strong military for legitimate purposes.
--That's be dumb. More Perot than LP
Return to Americans their traditional right of freedom of association, including voluntary racial separation, along with the abolishment of all forms of government-mandated racial discrimination, such as affirmative action and quotas.
--AA and quotas sure, segregation NO!
Give Americans freedom of choice in all matters concerning health and medical treatments.
--Shouldnt it be that way?
Let abortion be a states rights issue, decided by the people and the legislatures of each state rather than by a Supreme Court which acts too often as an unelected legislature.
--Actually, libertarians are probably strictly pro-choice.
Dismantle the federal government's police state spying apparatus and return to Americans their privacy rights.
--NO camera tickets!
Create a clean environment through a balanced approach that does not hurt the free enterprise system. Individuals, business and industry should be encouraged to use abundant, non-polluting energy sources, such as solar energy.
--I doubt libertarians would be concerned about this
End foreign aid.
--See Perot, Buchanan. Not us
Balance the federal budget every year and return to a constitutional money system.
--Thus eliminating fiscal policy and solely relying on monetary policy. Not many libertarians would be for that
Abolish the IRS and the federal income tax, to be replaced with tariffs and a consumption tax of no more than 8%.
--IRS yeah, but consumption tax isn't that popular (tends to hurt the poorer without some regulatory oversight). Try a flat tax instead.
Repeal all gun control legislation, and reaffirm the Second Amendment right of all law-abiding Americans to be armed in order to protect their family and property, and, when necessary, be able to defend against governmental tyranny.
--Well yeah.
Greatly reduce the size of the federal government, ending the permanent welfare/warfare state by restricting the federal government only to those powers granted it by the Constitution, and returning power to the people at the local and state levels.
--Sorta yeah.
Support private schools and home schooling, and return control of public schools to local communities.
--50/50 amongst libertarians. Some supprot public school, some dont
Allow self-determination for all peoples and nations, while opposing the exploitation or oppression of any country or group of people.
--pretty universal statement right?
Terminate NATO and substantially reduce the United States' worldwide military empire, end internal meddling in the affairs of other countries, while maintaining a strong military for legitimate purposes.
--That's be dumb. More Perot than LP
Return to Americans their traditional right of freedom of association, including voluntary racial separation, along with the abolishment of all forms of government-mandated racial discrimination, such as affirmative action and quotas.
--AA and quotas sure, segregation NO!
Give Americans freedom of choice in all matters concerning health and medical treatments.
--Shouldnt it be that way?
Let abortion be a states rights issue, decided by the people and the legislatures of each state rather than by a Supreme Court which acts too often as an unelected legislature.
--Actually, libertarians are probably strictly pro-choice.
Dismantle the federal government's police state spying apparatus and return to Americans their privacy rights.
--NO camera tickets!
Create a clean environment through a balanced approach that does not hurt the free enterprise system. Individuals, business and industry should be encouraged to use abundant, non-polluting energy sources, such as solar energy.
--I doubt libertarians would be concerned about this
End foreign aid.
--See Perot, Buchanan. Not us
Aramazd
Deity
AFAIK, none of these views are held by the libertarian party. The ANU is closer to an isolationist party.
JerichoHill said:
My economist knowledge barely covers balancing my own checkbook, so I'm going to defer to you on that. So, I'm just going to note where you and I disagree otherwise below, my comments in blue:
Balance the federal budget every year and return to a constitutional money system.
--Thus eliminating fiscal policy and solely relying on monetary policy. Not many libertarians would be for that
Okay
Abolish the IRS and the federal income tax, to be replaced with tariffs and a consumption tax of no more than 8%.
--IRS yeah, but consumption tax isn't that popular (tends to hurt the poorer without some regulatory oversight). Try a flat tax instead.
Agreed, though I was seeing it more generally as "Get rid of the IRS and scale waaaaay back on taxes
Repeal all gun control legislation, and reaffirm the Second Amendment right of all law-abiding Americans to be armed in order to protect their family and property, and, when necessary, be able to defend against governmental tyranny.
--Well yeah.
Hell yeah.
Greatly reduce the size of the federal government, ending the permanent welfare/warfare state by restricting the federal government only to those powers granted it by the Constitution, and returning power to the people at the local and state levels.
--Sorta yeah.
This one strikes me as probably the core US libertarian principle
Support private schools and home schooling, and return control of public schools to local communities.
--50/50 amongst libertarians. Some supprot public school, some dont
Wow, the crowds I talk to are 50/50 whether government should be out of the school business entirely, or issuing vouchers
Allow self-determination for all peoples and nations, while opposing the exploitation or oppression of any country or group of people.
--pretty universal statement right?
Yep
Terminate NATO and substantially reduce the United States' worldwide military empire, end internal meddling in the affairs of other countries, while maintaining a strong military for legitimate purposes.
--That's be dumb. More Perot than LP
The terminate NATO part would be dumb, but the rest seems libertarian-minded, in the sense of "self-determination" and non-interference ideals
Return to Americans their traditional right of freedom of association, including voluntary racial separation, along with the abolishment of all forms of government-mandated racial discrimination, such as affirmative action and quotas.
--AA and quotas sure, segregation NO!
Even voluntary segregation?
Give Americans freedom of choice in all matters concerning health and medical treatments.
--Shouldnt it be that way?
yep
Let abortion be a states rights issue, decided by the people and the legislatures of each state rather than by a Supreme Court which acts too often as an unelected legislature.
--Actually, libertarians are probably strictly pro-choice.
From what I've heard, libertarians are 50/50 on abortion
Dismantle the federal government's police state spying apparatus and return to Americans their privacy rights.
--NO camera tickets!
yep
Create a clean environment through a balanced approach that does not hurt the free enterprise system. Individuals, business and industry should be encouraged to use abundant, non-polluting energy sources, such as solar energy.
--I doubt libertarians would be concerned about this
Concerned with? Probably not, but agree with? Probably so.
End foreign aid.
--See Perot, Buchanan. Not us
That depends on who "us" is...
As regards foreign aid, I'll quote the LP website here
"Foreign aid is little more than welfare for nations -- with the same disastrous effects as domestic welfare programs."
Riesstiu IV
Deity
Mulholland said:
I think they are in favor of isolation from international politics, not complete isolation.
Danghis Khan
Your Friendly Pillager
Riesstiu IV said:
I think their economic, immigration and international platforms scream isolationism in every sense of the word. Building a wall is just stupid, that didn't even work in China!
No one would argue that Iceland, or Switzerland, or Sweden, or even Brazil is isolationist, just non-interventionist. There's a substantial difference between the two.
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
@@ID
I concede about foreign aid. I disagree with fellow LP'ers on this point.
For abortion, there seems to "freedom" LP'ers see no difference between checkbook freedom and social freedom. I'm one of those. Then there's the other LP'ers who for some reason disagree with us, though I really dont know their stance. I thought the the party had basically said its not going to be pro-life though, hense what I said.
I concede about foreign aid. I disagree with fellow LP'ers on this point.
For abortion, there seems to "freedom" LP'ers see no difference between checkbook freedom and social freedom. I'm one of those. Then there's the other LP'ers who for some reason disagree with us, though I really dont know their stance. I thought the the party had basically said its not going to be pro-life though, hense what I said.
They seem like fun.
I do not associate with the Libertarian Party, but I do have some libertarian tendencies. I also think that it is consistent to support individual freedom of choice and oppose abortion - the government should protect the weak, fetuses deserve the same rights as everyone, and abortion is no more a matter of personal choice than infanticide. But I probably shouldn't get into that here.
It just seems absurd that they are so adamant about access to guns but oppose certain lifestyles. I think personally that homosexuality is wrong, but the government should not get involved, and it is less of a risk to society than unfettered access to guns.
Also, what do they mean by "voluntary legal segregation"? That already exists in the form of not having to associate with anyone, regardless of race, if you don't want to. Except in public space, but they can't segregate that without making it involuntary. Maybe they are referring to school busing, which means that they support de facto involuntary segregation.
I do not associate with the Libertarian Party, but I do have some libertarian tendencies. I also think that it is consistent to support individual freedom of choice and oppose abortion - the government should protect the weak, fetuses deserve the same rights as everyone, and abortion is no more a matter of personal choice than infanticide. But I probably shouldn't get into that here.
It just seems absurd that they are so adamant about access to guns but oppose certain lifestyles. I think personally that homosexuality is wrong, but the government should not get involved, and it is less of a risk to society than unfettered access to guns.
Also, what do they mean by "voluntary legal segregation"? That already exists in the form of not having to associate with anyone, regardless of race, if you don't want to. Except in public space, but they can't segregate that without making it involuntary. Maybe they are referring to school busing, which means that they support de facto involuntary segregation.
JerichoHill said:
I disagree with a few LP planks as well, not least of which is that the official foreign policy framework can be summed up as "Huh?"
I think that libertarian pro-lifers are there because they view the fetus as a legal individual, thus they should be protected from murder (by their mothers) just as readily as a three-month-old baby. It's a viewpoint that I can see the logic of, anyway, even if I might disagree with it.
Eran of Arcadia said:
Eran: My comments above notwithstanding, please don't confuse the above American Nationalist Union with the Libertarian Party - they are decidedly not the same thing, any more than the Mormon faith is the same as the Protestant faith (both agree on many points, but are decidedly divergent on others).
Voluntary legal segregation might be the dismantling of Equal Opportunity laws - i.e. you can hire or sell/rent to who you like with or without regard to their race/religion/gender.
IglooDude said:
Yeah, I get that. These people seem kind of out there. I agree more with the LP, but not completely, and I try to vote for candidates not parties. I did vote LP for president in 2004, mostly because a) My state is always solidly Democrat, so my vote would probably not change that and b) I didn't feel I could really support either candidate.
Mulholland
Happy New Year!!!!
Yeah I misread the whole ditching of NAFTA and GATT thing. Instead it would put the US back in the position to Bi-laterally negotiate trade agreements. I still think it would be a mistake to simply go cold turkey from all these legal agreements that heve been in place for 15+ years. I have to add that political and economic isolation is not a good thing for world peace.
Irish Caesar
Yellow Jacket
JerichoHill said:
Wouldn't that be the opposite: ditch the Federal Reserve and monetary policy entirely and let business sort it out on its own?
I don't think fiscal policy is as effective as politicians might like it to be, so it wouldn't be greatly missed...but getting rid of the Fed would, I think, be suicide.
nonconformist
Miserable
Giving people machineguns is just asking for trouble.
nonconformist said:
Fortunately we don't give them away in the US, we simply make them available for purchase.
Irish Caesar
Yellow Jacket
nonconformist said:
Giving people trouble is just asking to be machine-gunned.
