An update from Firaxis Games regarding Beyond Earth feedback

It would be better to extend the victory out some

Purity... require it to get the space for 15-25 cities

Supremacy... more total strength needed

Harmony.. more turns (need more cities to discount)

Contact...actually a certain (Large) amount of energy from that excess


But that won't solve the affinity-problem.

Basically the problem with affinity now is not only that you suddenly get very good units, but also that you get random affinity from ruins, and strong incentives for affinity slingshots in the tech tree towards quick victories. So people are not encouraged to do long term investment in other techs, rather than shooting for 13 affinity ASAP.

If victory wonder was triggered at for example 16, the affinity jump from ruins would matter relatively less, you would need to pick up more other techs on the way to affinity techs, and there would be more of an incentive with long term investment in other techs (because there would be more turns left, so more time to get return on the investments).

They might decide to do something different with the process after you build the victory-wonder as well, like you suggest, but I think it is most important to fix the "race to 13", which does exclude a large part of the tech tree and make luck with affinity ruins and free techs too decisive.

The contact victory is in need of an overhaul too, off course. Basically it should be less luck-based, and need more prerequisites to trigger. Whatever is needed to put it on par with the other victories time-wise.
 
If the victories took longer the techs after victory would matter more
(If average victory time was 100 turns, then an extra 20 turns early start wouldn't be as important)
 
It would be better to extend the victory out some

Purity... require it to get the space for 15-25 cities

Supremacy... more total strength needed

Harmony.. more turns (need more cities to discount)

Contact...actually a certain (Large) amount of energy from that excess

15-25 cities? There are people who play on the smaller maps, you know...
Scalable amount of Earthling settlements (not necessarily number of Earth settlers) according to map size would fit better.
Your proposal on numbers for the Supremacy -and Harmony victories would be kn the same vein.
Contact is good as it is. If a player needs cash, simply put the beacon on hold.
 
If the victories took longer the techs after victory would matter more
(If average victory time was 100 turns, then an extra 20 turns early start wouldn't be as important)

you don't need to wait for a patch to change this i've already done it in my game. edit the globaldefines xml file in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization Beyond Earth\assets\Gameplay\XML and change them to whatever you want.

just search for victory their near the bottom of the page.
 
If the victories took longer the techs after victory would matter more
(If average victory time was 100 turns, then an extra 20 turns early start wouldn't be as important)

That depends on how much of an influence you have on victory times after building the wonder. I think it would make the early/mid game more interesting if you needed to cover more of the tech tree in order to unlock the wonder. But of course, the two are not mutually exclusive.
 
Need this patch. Tried reinstalling game 3 x with Steam. Updated drivers for video card. Updated Windows 8. Reinstalled Direct X and the other one.

Game crashes after starting or when loading the new game, and also get a "cannot load texture" error when I try and select world map in game creation. Steam says the integrity of the game data is OK have tried many times. Have reinstalled 3 times.

What should I do with my worthless game?

If someone can help me I would be eternaly grateful.
 
Need this patch. Tried reinstalling game 3 x with Steam. Updated drivers for video card. Updated Windows 8. Reinstalled Direct X and the other one.

Game crashes after starting or when loading the new game, and also get a "cannot load texture" error when I try and select world map in game creation. Steam says the integrity of the game data is OK have tried many times. Have reinstalled 3 times.

What should I do with my worthless game?

If someone can help me I would be eternaly grateful.

Post on the "CivBE - tech support" sub-forum. You might be able to get help there.
 
In Civ 5 your surroundings determined your tech order, whether you went liberty, tradition or some mix, your pantheon, your build order. Here nothing matters, just make as many cities as possible and get as many trade routes as possible.

This, so much.
This is the biggest problem I have with BE, that every game feels the same.
In Civ5, terrain features and resources were a big deal, almost as big as the civ you were going to play.

In BE, you could say that nearby resources could point you to an Affinity or another, but actually with expansion being so massively OP and convenient, you can just settle enough colonies and you'll have access to every kind of resource. Plus, all affinities give you a free sample of your main strategic resource.
 
I really, really hope that Firaxis doesn't abandon Beyond Earth. It's a solid *template* for a good game, the art assets & music are nice, the affinities could be flavorful... but... it absolutely needs more work. Like, 6 months of work and patching, think Blizzard & Diablo 3. I'll try and be brief in the hopes that someone at Firaxis actually reads this. There are three major areas that I'll call out:

* Reduce tedium. Trade route micromanagement, Exodus Gate spawning / Earthing Settlers having 1 move, etc. It's been said.
* Fix the flavor. Let Beyond Earth stand on its own apart from Civ5. Why is the world map hidden when I'm launching satellites? What's up with the bland virtue trees compared to SMAC's Social Engineering, or Civ4/Civ5 Governments / Policies? Why are the leader comments so lackadaisical? Why is there no planetary council when drastic, whole-planet affecting things like terraforming are theoretically going on?
* Increase diversity of playstyles and options. Playing as Harmony should be radically different than terraforming the Planet as Purity, which should be radically different than Supremacy robots. Within an Affinity, I should care if I picked up certain Wonders with unique powers, and what Virtues I've invested in. This is the big one, the long-term one, and fixing it should directly help the flavor concern above. Because it isn't true right now. Each affinity gets nice new art but it's all glorified bigger numbers. Who cares.

Here's the kicker, and where I disagree with some of the other posters: the above objectives should be pursued without particular regard to balance. Oh, don't get me wrong, balance is important too, but if Supremacy ends up slightly better than Purity in competitive play, whatever. It's far *more* important that the three play differently, that they all have notable strengths and notable weakness, that there's a flavor tie-in. And it's equally important that the game be fast & fun to play without tedium. Balance can always be fixed after the fact; if it isn't *fun*, there's a more fundamental problem afoot.

--

Okay, longer rambling, feel free to read along if interested, but mostly I hope those three areas are focused on. More personal thoughts here; feel free to ignore, etc.

Along the above lines, I'm actually fine with per-city trade routes as a way to distinguish BE from Civ5. The problem is both that they're crazy OP and they're tedious. If they're nerfed, guess what, there's still tedium. But.. wait... there's a solution. Just do what SMAC & Civ4 did: have trade-routes be 100% automatic, no alien / hostile interception or anything, and have big bonuses to them when they're to allies to encourage the diplomatic side of the game to matter at all. Of course, they'll need to be nerfed to make up for that fact, but that's *fine*. Kill internal trade routes, they are dumb and flavorless. (If you're friendless in the world, you *should* have a problem, not extra food & production.)

The lack of a planetary council or the impressive terraforming SMAC offered is just weird, especially since Civ5 had the UN / World Congress already. Find a sci-fi author, ask them 10 things that would have global impacts on an alien world that would likely require lots of resources / collaboration, and then apply as many as you can to be voted on.

The Wonders... it's been said before. Never mind that they're weak; weak would be fine if you want to have less feast-or-famine gameplay based on whether they're sniped or not. The problem is that they're BORING. None of them have any flash or sizzle. Flat production increases? Yawn. Wonders should be like Rares / Mythic Rares in Magic: The Gathering; you can't simply throw big stats to get people to care. They need to do something unique & interesting. A few simple ones are fine (e.g. Stonehenge in Civ5, which provides just Faith, but a lot of it early before you can normally get that much...), but later ones need to shine. Even something like "double science in this city" would be fine (that was a SMAC Secret Project). But mostly, let's see weird unique effects that can't be duplicated. If the AI can't use it well? TOO BAD! Do it anyway. See SMAC, which had all sorts of crazy features that the AI wasn't super-great at using. More flavor would be nice here too; the current Wonders manage to be flavorless in both lore & gameplay, a bad combo. Again, it's okay if the Wonders are still "weak"; make them cost a lot of production if you want, but they should be *interesting* and do something noticeable if you manage to build them.

The Virtues need a total overhaul. The current 4 branches are bland goodstuff. Who doesn't want all of Might, Prosperity, Research, and Knowledge? There's no tradeoff there! And they all give a pile of largely the same kind of stat boosts. Honestly, BNW ideologies could be a little *too* flexible, but look at G&K Freedom / Order / Autocracy - they all asked very different things of your empire, and did notably different things, and they all clashed with each other. Now, G&K Autocracy was a tad weak (if I'm conquering the world, give me the happiness boost from the Order opener), but hey, it was different & flavorful. In SMAC, a Green economy was very different than Free Market which was quite different from Planned - a decision I have to make even if I'm not Morgan or Deidre.

While reminiscing about SMAC, look back at just combat in SMAC. Deidre's horde of mindworms was qualitatively different (you need high morale to combat it). Morgan's probe teams & giant bank account was diferent. Yang's endless stream of units was different than Santiago's smaller but more elite units. Throw in a bunch of customizations that quite mattered (get AA units vs. aircraft, get Trance units vs. Mindworms), and even weird touches like the ability to equip nerve gas pods to your troops if you don't mind economic sanctions. The differences in BE's combat units are far, far too subtle. It's just the big number in the combat value that matters. Not that I particularly want to fight anyway, because the Affinities don't feel set up to clash enough as is.

So, yeah. Please offer more ways of playing the game. You can't just use different art but have the same small bonuses under the hood. Go back to Sid Meier's maxim about a few big choices rather than lots of small choices. BE has lots of small choices currently that don't matter, yet the one theoretical big choice you have, the choice of Affinity, doesn't really vary the playstyle. This is a huge killer to replayability. SMAC has endless Faction power + Social Engineering combos; the Civ5 civ bonuses + policy choices are hugely and significantly different; hell, even something like Civ1/Civ2 has wonders & government choice that matter more than BE Affinities currently.

Please, please, PLEASE, Firaxis, keep at it. This *could* yet be a worthy game. I hope it gets there.
 
Hell's Bells, Snowfire

You have summed up what I wish I'd thought... though I couldn't have written or even come up with a fraction of what you so lucidly stated.

I notice you joined in November this year, just like me. I'm following this thread and am spending more time here than playing BE, which is very strange. Back to playing BNW for me until this gets sorted.

There's no fun, so what's the point. If I wanted to spend my time in the minutiae of which transport goes where ad infinitum I would want to be paid for it and I'd be a clerk in some office; not pay for the privilege.

Don't care about beating these faceless meaningless foes. All in all: who cares? Never thought I'd say that about civ. Shame. Still GTAV is coming to pc, so I'll have something to enjoy this winter.

Buck up Firaxis, this is your fanbase, the silent majority telling you 'you blew it, now fix it'.
 
Still not a word from them? Why announce the well come with a hot fix and then say nothing? At least fix all the bugged quests!
 
(If you're friendless in the world, you *should* have a problem, not extra food & production.)

Agree, except that in single-player games you are almost always going to be friendless because the AI seems unable to like you for any amount of time. So I would just add a brief request to also look at AI behavior.
 
* Reduce tedium. Trade route micromanagement, Exodus Gate spawning / Earthing Settlers having 1 move, etc. It's been said.
* Fix the flavor. Let Beyond Earth stand on its own apart from Civ5. Why is the world map hidden when I'm launching satellites? What's up with the bland virtue trees compared to SMAC's Social Engineering, or Civ4/Civ5 Governments / Policies? Why are the leader comments so lackadaisical? Why is there no planetary council when drastic, whole-planet affecting things like terraforming are theoretically going on?
* Increase diversity of playstyles and options. Playing as Harmony should be radically different than terraforming the Planet as Purity, which should be radically different than Supremacy robots. Within an Affinity, I should care if I picked up certain Wonders with unique powers, and what Virtues I've invested in. This is the big one, the long-term one, and fixing it should directly help the flavor concern above. Because it isn't true right now. Each affinity gets nice new art but it's all glorified bigger numbers. Who cares.

<snip>

Good insights! I have a few minor disagreements / thoughts of my own based on my first few games:

* I like trade routes - I like making the decisions about which cities to trade with, I like evaluating whether to go internal TR for food/prod vs foreign for sci/energy. I totally agree they need to do some work to balance it out, but I don't want to see TRs totally nerfed & automated. Maybe an "automated" button for those that don't want to micro-manage their TRs (like workers)? Definitely want yields balanced out, and would love to see yields on international routes influenced by diplomacy & maybe tiered (giving incentive to maintain a stable route rather than jump around)

* Virtues - you call them "bland goodstuff". Well sure - that's the idea. They are all good. But you can't get all of them - so it becomes your "big decision" which one(s) you are going to pursue. I generally like what they did here - everything's available out of the gate (unlike Civ V civics), and you pick which area you want to focus on. I'm finding I generally focus on two of them to go deep (into tier 2 & 3), and that "feels good" to me.

* Wonders - I pretty much agree with you here. For wonders - I miss in Civ V how it was clear what's a "world wonder" vs "national wonder". And they give some nice bonuses, but I'm definitely not rushing to get particular wonders. I like how the victory wonders take up a tile and are major endeavors - that might be an interesting / fun mechanic for the "world wonders": Make them take up a tile, and cost a lot, but do something really special.

* Affinities - Also agree with you, although I haven't experimented much here. I'm just starting to experiment with Harmony, so will see how that goes. Seems interesting, but as you state, there appears to be very little real difference in play style. Maybe I'll cover my lands in miasma as Harmony (vs repulsor'ing it as Purity/Supremacy), but that seems to be about the extent of my major strategy decisions. Complaints about rushing Battlesuits aside (which I'm not sure I'm agree with), the affinities almost seem too balanced, kind of cookie-cutter. Would definitely like some distinct behavioral differences here.

* Aliens - I think this mechanic REALLY has cool potential, but out of the box, it's just barbarians-lite. As Supremacy I had to massacre an entire continent of aliens before they turned orange on me. As an early Harmonist I had a siege worm wiping out my trade convoys until I spent 3 turns researching ultra-sonic fences to forever protect all my trade routes. A couple of ways I think this could be enhanced, especially w.r.t. affinities
  • I love how they start generally neutral, but we need to fix the aggression numbers so they get aggressive much faster, and I think they should be very affinity-specific
  • Harmony could do cool stuff like not worry about alien unit's zone of control, or even randomly get an alien unit gifted from alien nests in their territories -- basically becoming allies with the aliens. Slow to aggro, quick to recover
  • Against Purity, aliens should become the new raging barbarians. Baseline stats would be much quicker to aggro and slower to recover
  • And maybe Supremacy remains neutral - aliens get aggressive and recover neutrality at some standard speed (which still needs to be faster than it is currently)

* Another thing I'd like to see enhanced is covert ops. I didn't use them much in Civ V, and I've played with them a bit in BE but it's sort of like health in BE - it's a mechanic I can focus on, but it seems like there's not major impact if I don't. I get random notifications of covert ops being detected in my cities, but there's nothing to indicate how/if that's causing a problem. A part of it is surely my lack of skill/experience with this mechanic, but some enhancements I think would be useful:
  • Tell me what those covert ops in my cities are actually doing. Am I losing energy/science/culture/food/production/??? And maybe I only get those details if I have counter-intel assigned, but from a gameplay perspective it's hard to prioritize a mechanic if I don't know what's going on, so give me some clue.
  • Maybe I'm just not doing it right, but I can't seem to get a city's intrigue beyond level 2-3 (steal sci/tech). Even trying the (allegedly broken) establish-network-spy-swap. I'm probably doing it wrong, or not tech'd/virtue'd enough, but it prevents me from reaching the really cool covert ops missions and I don't know what to do differently. I'd appreciate more tactical info on covert ops missions, like we have with unit attacks -- show me some numbers!
    - This agent's % of completion & % of remaining undetected
    - This city's % of detection & % of counter-intel reducing intrigue (it obviously change throughout the mission, but show me what I'm facing right now)
    - This op's % difficulty factor

Ok, went on for much longer than I planned to, but overall - I really like BE and hope some forthcoming patches (and maybe future expansions) can address some of these items!
 
Agree, except that in single-player games you are almost always going to be friendless because the AI seems unable to like you for any amount of time. So I would just add a brief request to also look at AI behavior.

I was playing on easier difficulties, but I've had no issue with the AI being friendly (when I'm not war-mongering). AI definitely seems to frown upon war-mongering -- which is probably reasonable :)
 
I was playing on easier difficulties, but I've had no issue with the AI being friendly (when I'm not war-mongering). AI definitely seems to frown upon war-mongering -- which is probably reasonable :)

Really? Here's a list of things that appear to irritate the AI, sometimes to the point of beyond ever being able to be friends:
  • Being a different affinity. This appears to be the strongest negative driver.
  • Being a warmonger. Still no idea how this is calculated, and how long it lasts. Hilariously, this is still counted against you even if YOU didn't declare war.
  • Having them catch you spying, but this shows up as "They have been spying on you recently."
  • Performing expeditions near territory that the AI says is near them. Note that this doesn't actually mean it's near the AI; it can be closer to your territory, or even IN your territory, and they will still get upset. No idea how the AI determines what is 'near' them.
  • Removing miasma 'near' the AI.
  • Adding miasma 'near' the AI.
  • Having a cooperation agreement with someone they don't like.
  • Having a weak army.
  • Having a strong army.
  • Settling 'too quickly'.
  • Settling near them.
  • Them settling near you.
  • Building wonders.
  • Buying tiles near them.
  • Killing aliens, but bizarrely, they will ask you to stop but they continue to do so.
  • Having a cooperation agreement, and refusing a request - even absurd requests that would be really, dramatically against your self-interest.
  • Having a cooperation agreement, and declaring war on them. This one I actually understand, but it's unusual that THEY can declare war on me with impunity, but I get (and I'm not even exaggerating) a penalty that lasts for the rest of the game.

That's just off the top of my head. The 'positive' modifiers that I've been able to see are:
  • You share the same affinity.
  • You have a Cooperation Agreement.
  • You share a mutually beneficial trade route.
  • They asked for help and you provided it. Inexplicably, this one appears to be the weakest and 'fades away' the fastest.

It is far, far easier to irritate the AI than to make friends with them, and the more difficult the game, the more aggressive they become, making it even less likely.
 
I get random notifications of covert ops being detected in my cities, but there's nothing to indicate how/if that's causing a problem.

The low level ops don't cause harm they just benefit your opponents. If it does harm you'll know, cuz stuff might 'splode.
 
Still not a word from them? Why announce the well come with a hot fix and then say nothing? At least fix all the bugged quests!

They never said anything about a hotfix. They said they are working on a patch and would let us know more when they are close to completion.
 
SNIP...
It is far, far easier to irritate the AI than to make friends with them, and the more difficult the game, the more aggressive they become, making it even less likely.

And beyond that, they seem to never forget, and randomly bring the issues up. I had a game where I killed a station before Koslov even had landed, and he decided he was going to be super angry at me for the rest of the game because of an event that he didn't even witness. Every 50 turns or so I'd get him popping up telling me he really didn't like me killing that station, and that I should stop.
 
It is far, far easier to irritate the AI than to make friends with them, and the more difficult the game, the more aggressive they become, making it even less likely.

I have found making alliances in the early game substantially diminishes the negative penalties you get from things like warmongering. I usually pick PAC, KP, or PAU and ally up early, then I can expand towards them, clear miasma, pick a different affinity, kill some folks... basically do whatever I want and they're still friendly. Helps that they go to war whenever you do.

Course it's buggy as hell. The AI doesn't seem to factor alliances at all when declaring war, or factor potential wars when making alliances. (Hilarious to watch Slavs attack me then get trounced by much larger PAC and PAU allies... or get DoWed by Slavs, then make ally with ARC, which jumps in immediately, despite refusing to take payment to go to war on Slavs a turn ago...)

And beyond that, they seem to never forget, and randomly bring the issues up. I had a game where I killed a station before Koslov even had landed, and he decided he was going to be super angry at me for the rest of the game because of an event that he didn't even witness. Every 50 turns or so I'd get him popping up telling me he really didn't like me killing that station, and that I should stop.

There's a known bug where killing a station will make AIs remind you about it all game. Not sure if it continues to decrease your rating with them. Doesn't seem to happen with any other diplo issues.
 
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