And Jesus Weeps

[Berzerker]

The sitcom Seinfeld ended a long run of entertaining us with the exploits of a group of NYC friends with an episode involving a local (Connecticut ?) samaritan law. The gang recorded a crime and laughed as a man was robbed and subsequently were charged with failing to assist the victim. The episode relived their lives via flashbacks with a range of situations showing them to be selfish, callous people who wouldn't lift a finger to help people in trouble.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news...-deaths-border-patrol-water-sabotage-migrants

Hours after a humanitarian group released videos showing border patrol agents kicking over water bottles left for migrants in the Arizona desert, a volunteer for the organization was arrested and charged with harboring undocumented immigrants.

Scott Daniel Warren, 35, a volunteer with the group No More Deaths, faces a federal charge of harboring two people in the country illegally.

Border patrol agents dump water supplies left for people crossing the desert... And our government prosecutes people who help these people. Sounds like the Underground Railroad, people rendering assistance to runaway slaves were prosecuted.

According to semitic lore, Sodom and Gomorrah (and 2 other cities of the plain) were destroyed by God for immorality - their crime was mistreating strangers visiting the cities. For these desert peoples, not rendering assistance to travelers was a grave sin but the city dwellers cared not.

I dont care what is legal or illegal, these agents are criminals... What crime they're guilty of is another question, but if they were living 4,000 years ago near the Dead Sea I'd think they'd be getting the death penalty from God.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article196016724.html

U.S. Border Patrol agents took someone off a Greyhound bus outside the Fort Lauderdale station after allegedly asking everyone on board for proof of citizenship, according to witness video and immigration advocates.

The Border Patrol’s Miami section confirmed Monday: Yes, that’s us, and we can do that.

The e-mail didn’t address whether or not the agents asked everyone on board for proof of citizenship, but named parts of federal law that give vast powers to Border Patrol agents.

And apparently they dont give a damn about the 4th Amendment either...

MAGA

 

[Lexicus]

Once again, we are going to have to de-nazify Border Patrol and ICE if the Democrats ever take over the government again. Unfortunately, this evidently means firing most of their personnel.

 

[Zkribbler]

I dont care what is legal or illegal, these agents are criminals... What crime they're guilty of is another question, but if they were living 4,000 years ago near the Dead Sea I'd think they'd be getting the death penalty from God.

Wikipedia says:

In the United States, attempted murder is an inchoate crime. A conviction for attempted murder requires a demonstration of an intent to murder, meaning that the perpetrator either tried to murder and failed (e.g. attempted to shoot the victim and missed or shot the victim and the victim survived) or took a substantial step towards committing a murder (e.g. purchasing a gun or other deadly weapon and writing about his intent to kill).

From the article linked in the OP:
"Volunteers found water gallons vandalised 415 times, on average twice a week, in an 800 sq mile patch of Sonoran desert south-west of Tucson, from March 2012 to December 2015, the report said. The damage affected 3,586 gallons."

 

[Takhisis]

Once again, we are going to have to de-nazify Border Patrol and ICE if the Democrats ever take over the government again. Unfortunately, this evidently means firing most of their personnel.

The dreadful thing is that they are bureaucrats who follow orders. Change a few police chiefs and they'll be kindhearted people again. Change them again and you'll get a bunch of barstuds.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Actually t

Wikipedia says:



From the article linked in the OP:
"Volunteers found water gallons vandalised 415 times, on average twice a week, in an 800 sq mile patch of Sonoran desert south-west of Tucson, from March 2012 to December 2015, the report said. The damage affected 3,586 gallons."

Too tired to go on a link hunt but according to Reddit, there are actually authorized watering spots in the desert. The ones that this particular group are setting up are not only unauthorized but apparently they are being set up in live-fire artillery ranges and other super dangerous spots. The border agents are actually trying to discourage a practice that could get migrants killed. I don't remember all the details though.

 

[Takhisis]

tl;dr you're a fascist/communist (cross out whichever doesn't fit my narrative)

 

[Berzerker]

Actually t

Too tired to go on a link hunt but according to Reddit, there are actually authorized watering spots in the desert. The ones that this particular group are setting up are not only unauthorized but apparently they are being set up in live-fire artillery ranges and other super dangerous spots. The border agents are actually trying to discourage a practice that could get migrants killed. I don't remember all the details though.

that certainly does change the situation

doh, looks like I owe them an apology

sorry people

 

[hobbsyoyo]

that certainly does change the situation

doh, looks like I owe them an apology

sorry people

You should look into it yourself though. Like I said I don't fully remember the details and I'm really just going off the Reddit hivemind. But they presented lots of facts showing that there was a lot more to the story than was being reported in a sensationalized manner. And it definitely wasn't the case that r/T_D had taken over the thread, the statements basically were like "I hate cops as much as anyone but..."

 

[Berzerker]

it makes sense, neither the article I linked or the news segment on Chris Hayes of MSNBC mentioned live fire ranges

I'll google it tonight sometime

and I apologize to the other posters and lurkers

 

[hobbsyoyo]

It may not have been live fire ranges. I it could have been some other really dangerous restricted area. That's just what I remembered but I'm fallible and Im tired but waiting for the car to charge. I need bed

 

[Zkribbler]

IMHO, the live-fire excuse is phony-baloney. I've found some references to live-fire drills at Fort Huachuca. The fort is less than 120 sq, miles in area. The vandalism has taking place in 800 sq. miles over three years.

Besides, how are people in a dangerous situation protected by having no water?

 

[warpus]

Has Jesus even ever wept? I don't remember him crying at any point, but maybe I'm not remembering the exact Bible verse

 

[Borachio]

John 11:35

Shortly before the raising of Lazarus, I believe.

 

[Samson]

Has Jesus even ever wept? I don't remember him crying at any point, but maybe I'm not remembering the exact Bible verse

The most famous example is at the death of Lazarus, in the shortest verse in the bible "Jesus Wept" John 11:35.

 

[Lexicus]

Besides, how are people in a dangerous situation protected by having no water?

I think the idea would be to incentivize them to go to the less dangerous places that have the water. But I'm also skeptical of the "dangerous areas" excuse. I really doubt that any of these organizations would be doing it in places that would put migrants into unnecessary danger - I trust them to care about migrant safety a lot more than I trust border patrol, anyway.

Additionally, reading the report that No More Deaths and La Coalición de Derechos Humanos put together about these incidents, it is clear it is happening across the whole border, not just in "dangerous" areas.

@hobbsyoyo you should read the report that ZKribbler linked to. I don't think those redditors know what they're talking about.

 

[Berzerker]

I didn't google it yet

Has Jesus even ever wept? I don't remember him crying at any point, but maybe I'm not remembering the exact Bible verse

This raises a problem I have with Christian doctrine. Has Jesus ever died? Yes, he was entombed after his body gave out and that sounds like dying, but he rose in 3 days as himself and ascended Heaven. We dont do that. We stay buried (or whatever). I'm more impressed by a person who sacrifices them self for another person than Jesus who did neither.

 

[warpus]

Jesus' sacrifice was not his life but all the pain he went through while he was being tortured.

Right? He's immortal so who cares if he dies

 

[Berzerker]

True, his pain was worse than most people will face as they die and it seems that was a 'requirement'.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...fesaving-water-jugs-left-migrants/1047070001/

This article says border patrol agents are instructed to leave water/food alone and the agency attributes this problem to 'rogue' agents.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...r-patrol-sabotage-aid-migrants-mexico-arizona

This link says the practice of destroying water/food happens on state lands, natl parks and private land too so it may not be to dissuade travelers on live fire ranges.

 

[Takhisis]

We already have Ask a Theologian threads, folks.

Besides, how are people in a dangerous situation protected by having no water?

If there's no water there they'll go somewhere else. If there's water in this… firing range? they might go there and get fired upon.

 

[timtofly]

Jesus wept because death is sorta final when it comes to the current state of affairs. This thread weeps, because there is a potential of death in the reality of an illegal act.

I am not seeing how those two things are related. In fact Mary complained that Jesus did not intervene and prevent death from happening. The comparison would be that Jesus was cold hearted and just wept, but did nothing about it.

What humans are legally allowed to change the facts of life and provide immigrants with an immediate case of citizenship?

I doubt water is left to encourage an illegal act, but as humanitarian aid. No more removing water is neccessarily evil, although more selfish than humanitarian. I would point out that economies and rules of self preservation are just as evil, as they do not treat all humans equally. But death and economy are integral to the human condition.

Jesus was not weeping because of death, but because of the human condition as a whole. He did not mislead his followers that the guy had to die and was dead. The whole point was that Jesus was the answer to the human condition and would have to die as well. Now you do not have to accept that both Lazarus and Jesus actually died and was brought back to life. Cause any feel good stories will never change the reality of the human condition. There is however another condition that humans have access to, but most cling to the ups and downs of the current one.

It would seem to me that just like humans love their economies. The human condition is a controlled economy from without this material reality. Be that good or bad is a personal opinion though.